OT: American Politics

[Altair]

NATO isn’t dead. Not even close. They’ll spend a little more, Trump will show off that he got them to pay a little more and they’ll move on to other issues.

He wants every nation to be spending 2 percent of GDP by January 2019, 5 years ahead of schedule, and then he wants nations spending 4 percent of GDP on defense, a non starter on top of a non starter.

If not, America goes it alone.

How is NATO not dead? It may limp alone like a zombie, lots of moving parts, but by all rational standards, it is dead.

And don't give me that bunk that he will take credit for extra spending. 8 nations will hit 2 percent of GDP by next year, up from 4 when his term began, NATO spending has been rising across the board, and did he take credit and praise it as a job well done? No, he came in, bashed Germany, bashed Europe, talked about how it was a bad deal for the USA, pushed up the spending timeline to a impossible date, and then demand that it be doubled.

The last time he talked about such nonsense was regarding a trade war. And people said that he was bluffing, he wouldn't risk it, just a pressure tactic. Fast forward, here we are in a global trade war.

Scary as it is, people just need to start taking him at his word. The only goddamn thing he doesn't lie about is how much he hates every organization, trade deal and military alliance America supposedly got suckered into.

 

[Habsy]

But yes, by all means, protect yourselves on your own dime instead of ours.

 

[Habsy]

He wants every nation to be spending 2 percent of GDP by January 2019, 5 years ahead of schedule, and then he wants nations spending 4 percent of GDP on defense, a non starter on top of a non starter.

If not, America goes it alone.

How is NATO not dead? It may limp alone like a zombie, lots of moving parts, but by all rational standards, it is dead.

And don't give me that bunk that he will take credit for extra spending. 8 nations will hit 2 percent of GDP by next year, up from 4 when his term began, NATO spending has been rising across the board, and did he take credit and praise it as a job well done? No, he came in, bashed Germany, bashed Europe, talked about how it was a bad deal for the USA, pushed up the spending timeline to a impossible date, and then demand that it be doubled.

The last time he talked about such nonsense was regarding a trade war. And people said that he was bluffing, he wouldn't risk it, just a pressure tactic. Fast forward, here we are in a global trade war.

Scary as it is, people just need to start taking him at his word. The only goddamn thing he doesn't lie about is how much he hates every organization, trade deal and military alliance America supposedly got suckered into.

Pay your ****ing bills.

That is all.

 

[Altair]

Post America world. Lol.

Every single time the world is ending. On every single matter. Don’t you tire of the constant histrionics? 18 months in and you’re no worse for wear yet the sky is always falling. Truly amazing that people aren’t realizing this.

The world isn't ending. Post America world is simply where America withdraws within its own borders and flat out refuses to deal with other nations in a constructive manner.

Don't act like it hasn't happened before, it happened in the interwar period between the world wars.

 

[Altair]

Pay your ****ing bills.

That is all.

The bill isn't due until 2024, as negotiated under Obama.

How about America actually keep its word on something signed before november 2016?

 

[Habsy]

Without America you’re all ****ed militarily and you know it. So does Trump. He’s leveraging that in a manner distasteful to you all. C’est la vie.

America’s strength prevents large scale war. You lose it and the Russians and Chinese roll.

 

[Habsy]

The bill isn't due until 2024, as negotiated under Obama.

How about America actually keep its word on something signed before november 2016?

Like they haven’t been. I’m still paying for your protection. You’re welcome.

 

[Habsy]

The world isn't ending. Post America world is simply where America withdraws within its own borders and flat out refuses to deal with other nations in a constructive manner.

Don't act like it hasn't happened before, it happened in the interwar period between the world wars.

Define “constructive manner”

 

[Altair]

But yes, by all means, protect yourselves on your own dime instead of ours.

Protect ourselves from who? The reason America wants its allies to have functional militaries is so when NATO gets dragged into yet another US lead shit show, it doesn't have to go it alone.

US or no US, russia isn't walking into Berlin

Russia isn't flying jets over the Canadian Arctic. Europe is actively creating it's own military defense pact, without the US, and Canada would be better served exploring its options to function outside of NATO and the USA.

 

[Altair]

Like they haven’t been. I’m still paying for your protection. You’re welcome.

You would be paying for that protection whether Canada spent 1 percent of GDP on defense or 20 percent, so how does that work exactly? You think that if the rest of the alliance reaches 2 percent America suddenly scales back military spending?

give me a break.

 

[Habsy]

Protect ourselves from who? The reason America wants its allies to have functional militaries is so when NATO gets dragged into yet another US lead shit show, it doesn't have to go it alone.

US or no US, russia isn't walking into Berlin

Russia isn't flying jets over the Canadian Arctic. Europe is actively creating it's own military defense pact, without the US, and Canada would be better served exploring its options to function outside of NATO and the USA.

Self-delusion is an amazing thing.

Yes, Canada and Germany protect themselves.




I’m still chuckling here. If the USA actually did walk away, which they wouldn’t but still, you’re all ****ed. Have that epiphany already and be appreciative. That is where the problem lies, you all expect too ****ing much on our dime then act like ****ing ingrates. Yeah, Russia and China are afraid of Germany, Canada and the rest of the world. Delusional. Churchill realized they had to hang on long enough for the USA to enter WWII or all was lost. Time for you to realize the same and at least be grateful.

 

[Aberdeen]

America will be ok because it has New York and California.

 

[Altair]

Define “constructive manner”

In a manner where both sides can come to a equally agreeable solution or agreement.

America is simply focusing on the best deal it can get for itself, others be damned. No way to constructively come to mutual agreements with anybody else.

It cannot even negotiate a NAFTA deal with its two closest neighbours, one of which is it's largest market for exports. This is America pulling out of global affairs in terms of military, trade, and diplomacy.

No way to sugar coat it or say that he's bluffing. He's doing what he has always said he was going to do, destroy the international arrangements that he feels takes advantage of America. Shame he doesn't see the cost in doing so, but that's what is happening.

Iran deal, dead.

TPP, dead.

Paris Accord, dead.

NAFTA, trying to kill.

NATO, trying to kill.

The G7, trying to kill.

Those are just the ones off the top of my head.

 

[Habsy]

You would be paying for that protection whether Canada spent 1 percent of GDP on defense or 20 percent, so how does that work exactly? You think that if the rest of the alliance reaches 2 percent America suddenly scales back military spending?

give me a break.

No, I think it means we would spend more on ourselves instead of on you. Cheers ingrate.

And the next Democrat will scale back defense spending anyway.

 

[Altair]

Self-delusion is an amazing thing.

Yes, Canada and Germany protect themselves.




I’m still chuckling here. If the USA actually did walk away, which they wouldn’t but still, you’re all ****ed. Have that epiphany already and be appreciative. That is where the problem lies, you all expect too ****ing much on our dime then act like ****ing ingrates. Yeah, Russia and China are afraid of Germany, Canada and the rest of the world. Delusional. Churchill realized they had to hang on long enough for the USA to enter WWII or all was lost. Time for you to realize the same and at least be grateful.

Yes, I'm sure that would allow Russia, a country with the GDP of Italy, to outfight Europe, with a potential army twice its size.

France: 205,000 with 195,770 in reserves

Germany: 180,000 with 145,00 in reserves

Poland: 120,000 with 515,000 in reserves

Spain: 125,00 with 16,200 in reserves

Italy: 320,000 with 42,000 in reserves

Sweden: 14,000 with 26,000 in reserves

Netherlands: 50,000 with 32,200 in reserves

Romania: 75,000 with 80,000 in Reserves

Czech Republic: 21,100 with 11,000 in reserves

Ukraine: 160,000 with 1,000,000 in reserves (Already in a proxy war with Russia)

Denmark: 25,000 with 63,000 in reserves

Bulgaria: 35,000 with 302,500 in reserves

Belgium: 35,000 with 6,500 in reserves

Austria: 30,000 with 27,000 in reserves

Portugal: 40,000 with 211,000 in reserves

Finland: 36,500 with 357,000 in reserves

Croatia: 21,500 with 102,700 in reserves

Estonia: 3,500 with 60,000 in reserves

Greece: 180,000 with 280,000 in reserves

Hungary: 20,000 with 52,000 in reserves

Latvia: 13,000 with 11,000 in reserves

Lithuania: 15,000 with 4,260 in reserves

Slovenia: 7,500 with 8,300 in reserves

Slovakia: 13,500 with 0 in reserves

Including at least 1,600 Nuclear Weapons

Frontline: 1,745,600

Reserves: 3,548,430

Total: 5,294,030


Russia


Frontline Troops: 766,055

Reserves: 2,485,000

Total: 3,251,055

Including 8,000 Nuclear Weapons

EU combined military spending :226.73 billion

Russian Military Budget: 66.3 Billion

yeah, russia wins that in a cake walk, right?

 

[Altair]

No, I think it means we would spend more on ourselves instead of on you. Cheers ingrate.

And the next Democrat will scale back defense spending anyway.

You name me what American battle group, air wing, naval fleet is currently tasked with defending Canada.

I'll wait.

 

[leafman101]

Talk about self delusions. Every empire in the history of the world has fallen. Its ignorant to take it for granted. America can definitely **** it all up.

 

[Altair]

Talk about self delusions. Every empire in the history of the world has fallen. Its ignorant to take it for granted. America can definitely **** it all up.

America will have ****ed it up beyond repair by the end of his second term.

America will have ****ed it up with decades of repairs required by the end of his first.

 

[Habsy]

In a manner where both sides can come to a equally agreeable solution or agreement.

Oh please. That’s what Trump is trying to do. The issue is that you think he’s being unreasonable asking other countries to stop the unfairness. You have zero interest in equally or mutually agreeable.

America is simply focusing on the best deal it can get for itself, others be damned. No way to constructively come to mutual agreements with anybody else.

Lol. You’re right, other countries don’t focus on the best deal they can get for themselves. Insanity.

It cannot even negotiate a NAFTA deal with its two closest neighbours, one of which is it's largest market for exports. This is America pulling out of global affairs in terms of military, trade, and diplomacy.

This is America threatening to pull out in order to get a better deal. Nuance isn’t your thing apparently.

No way to sugar coat it or say that he's bluffing. He's doing what he has always said he was going to do, destroy the international arrangements that he feels takes advantage of America. Shame he doesn't see the cost in doing so, but that's what is happening.

Iran deal, dead.

TPP, dead.

Paris Accord, dead.

NAFTA, trying to kill.

NATO, trying to kill.

The G7, trying to kill.

Those are just the ones off the top of my head.

And? If you seriously think America wasn’t on the short end of the stick on many of those deals you’re delusional. Oh wait, we’ve established that already. Put on your big boy pants bubba.

 

[zeke]

If it's any consolation, in a post America world, Europe and Canada might want to have functional a military for their own self interests.

Time for canada to get them some nukes, imo.