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OT: American Politics

BeLeafer said:
That's your opinion.

Getting the US Senate to vote against an unauthorized war and assert its constitutional authority is hugely significant, regardless of how much you want to trivialize it.
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I'm glad we have established a standard for what you believe constitutes "hugely significant" action by Congress. I will keep this standard in mind when evaluating future steps by Congress.

I'm also unsure why you and to a lesser extent habsy object to my characterization of this bill so much. I never disputed that this was unprecedented, in fact I think I specifically alluded to it in one of my first posts on the subject. And I support it. I mean it's a big deal to see the Senate rebuke the president like this, but in the age of Trump I'm not really surprised - what used to be unprecedented is now just Wednesday.

I just keep pointing out that in terms of actually having a tangible impact on the conflict in Yemen, this doesn't move the needle at all. So you guys are free to celebrate a bunch of lame duck Senators temporarily finding their consciences and supporting the Dems, but I am going to hold off celebrating until there is a material change in US support for the Yemeni conflict.

and re: zeke's point about the House taking up this bill when they're sworn in. My understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that if the Senate bill that was recently passed does not make it to the House floor this session, it will die. So even if the House wants to pass the bill, they would have to start from scratch and the new Senate would then have to vote for it again. And I am pretty confident there will not be the votes in the new Senate to push a similar bill through. If I'm wrong about this then that obviously changes the calculus.
 
MindzEye said:
Yeah, due to Trump's 2017 changes to it.
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Yep. By gutting the tax implication they dealt it a potentially lethal blow. In all honesty, my healthcare costs have almost tripled since Obamacare. There comes a point where people are tired of paying through the nose to cover others. When it becomes unreasonably expensive it loses support. I pay $32k a year just for my family. It’s ridiculous.

They better come up with something better.
 
Habsy said:
Yep. By gutting the tax implication they dealt it a potentially lethal blow. In all honesty, my healthcare costs have almost tripled since Obamacare. There comes a point where people are tired of paying through the nose to cover others. When it becomes unreasonably expensive it loses support. I pay $32k a year just for my family. It’s ridiculous.

They better come up with something better.
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christ. that is obscene.

I don't know how it could happen in your country, but you guys really need to switch to a single payer system
 
Granted that’s a Cadillac plan but even crappier plans will run a family $15-20k a year. This will be the primary issue in 2020 I believe. Especially if SCOTUS upholds the decision.
 
Habsy said:
Granted that’s a Cadillac plan but even crappier plans will run a family $15-20k a year. This will be the primary issue in 2020 I believe. Especially if SCOTUS upholds the decision.
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kinda puts into perspective how much I (/we) take healthcare for granted...

not to say the Canadian system is brilliant, rather I'd say its flawed in very different ways than yours. as an example, when we moved back to Nova Scotia we were told that the waiting list to get a family doctor is over 50,000 people and probably longer than a year. we managed to find doctors within six months, but there's a substantial piece of the population here that doesn't have a family doctor. and when new family doctors open up, they're not required to take patients off the wait list. (the wait list seems functionally useless - I found our doctor by just calling around until I found a clinic accepting patients).

but I'm not sure how the Republicans come out on the right side of this debate. it seems like there is a growing movement to support universal healthcare, and I'm not sure how the GOP will spin their policy proposals in a way that voters will support.
 
The GOP had a chance to make substantive fixes and ****ed that up.

I pay through the nose yes but I can get an MRI same day with my insurance. Providers love the coverage so I am getting what I pay for. It’s just ridiculously expensive.

My family is covered for pretty much everything. My wife and I did an experiment a few months back. I had her call for an appointment at a specialist, when asked what insurance she had she told them a policy that falls under Obamacare. They told her the next available spot was 4 months away. That afternoon I called the same doctor, told them my insurance and was told they could see me in the morning.

This is The ACA. In my opinion it was designed to fail like this to implement single-payer. I think people will be amenable to single payer if those that can afford it can buy supplemental insurance. It checks off the two major boxes.
 
Wayward DP said:
kinda puts into perspective how much I (/we) take healthcare for granted...

not to say the Canadian system is brilliant, rather I'd say its flawed in very different ways than yours. as an example, when we moved back to Nova Scotia we were told that the waiting list to get a family doctor is over 50,000 people and probably longer than a year. we managed to find doctors within six months, but there's a substantial piece of the population here that doesn't have a family doctor. and when new family doctors open up, they're not required to take patients off the wait list. (the wait list seems functionally useless - I found our doctor by just calling around until I found a clinic accepting patients).

but I'm not sure how the Republicans come out on the right side of this debate. it seems like there is a growing movement to support universal healthcare, and I'm not sure how the GOP will spin their policy proposals in a way that voters will support.
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Canada and the US take the extreme versions of healthcare.

Most of Europe has a hybrid system if i understand correctly, a mix of private and public healthcare, and their systems are ranked far higher than the American and Canadian healthcare systems.
 
Habsy said:
Yep. By gutting the tax implication they dealt it a potentially lethal blow. In all honesty, my healthcare costs have almost tripled since Obamacare. There comes a point where people are tired of paying through the nose to cover others. When it becomes unreasonably expensive it loses support. I pay $32k a year just for my family. It’s ridiculous.

They better come up with something better.
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Single payer. The problem is still that there is a profit soaking middle man between you and your health care provider.
 
Altair said:
Canada and the US take the extreme versions of healthcare.

Most of Europe has a hybrid system if i understand correctly, a mix of private and public healthcare, and their systems are ranked far higher than the American and Canadian healthcare systems.
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I don't disagree that some of the European systems are superior to ours, but if I had to pick between our healthcare and American healthcare, that's an easy choice.
 
Wayward DP said:
I don't disagree that some of the European systems are superior to ours, but if I had to pick between our healthcare and American healthcare, that's an easy choice.
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Naturally, only because the American system is one of the very worst conceived systems implemented in the western world. Spending double per capita what everyone else is, covering less people than anyone else, with a lower life expectancy than anyone else.

It's a disgrace, but anything else is downright communism to them.
 
Habsy said:
So the markets are concerned about China’s economy. Trump may have been right that the IS could outlast China in a trade war. What he didn’t realize is that it’s all interconnected and a failing China economy will have strong adverse effects on other markets, including our own.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/14/business/china-economy-xi-jinping.html
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the mistake is forgetting that the vast majority of Chinese are still too poor to be as effected by global trade swings as Americans would be.
 
I still to this day do not know one Canadian who has had to wait too long for any critical procedure. many many cancer survivors and all were treated promptly....and cured. and of course they never had to worry for even a second about paying for anything or having to file insurance claims.
 
I know a couple that had to wait on testing. One ended up losing his foot. For the most part the system works though, even with its warts, and people aren’t going bankrupt.
 
zeke said:
I still to this day do not know one Canadian who has had to wait too long for any critical procedure. many many cancer survivors and all were treated promptly....and cured. and of course they never had to worry for even a second about paying for anything or having to file insurance claims.
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Don't be dumb.

https://www.cihi.ca/en/canadians-continue-to-report-longer-wait-times-for-care

Despite the majority (93%) of Canadians having a regular doctor or place of care, Canada continues to perform below the international average on 7 out of 8 measures of timely access to medical care. For example,

Less than half (43%) of Canadians could get a same- or next-day appointment with their family doctor or at their regular place of care the last time they needed medical attention, compared with top-performing countries like New Zealand (76%) and the Netherlands (77%).
Access to after-hours care is also more difficult in Canada than in most other countries, with only 1 in 3 (34%) patients able to receive medical care in the evenings, on weekends or on holidays without going to the emergency department.
Canadians visit emergency departments more often than people in other countries, and have the longest reported waits there as well. More than 40% of Canadians said that the last time they visited an emergency department, it was for a condition that could have been treated by their regular providers if they had been available.
Canadians also report the longest wait times for specialists, with more than half (56%) waiting longer than 4 weeks to see a specialist, compared with the international average of 36%.
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again, a certain side has somehow been able to convince people that the "government between you and your healthcare" is actually worse than "a private corporation who will fight to avoid paying for your coverage between you and your healthcare".
 
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