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Thread of Game of Thrones (spoilers inside)

zeke said:
She was gonna burn it anyways. The bells almost made her stop. They were her last chance at redemption.
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The way I laid it out would have stayed true to her character and still have her be the mad queen who burns a city.

She would have faced all her struggles, with Jon, the north, loss of 2 of her dragons, jorah, her best friend, betrayal by jon Tyrion and Varys, but have her trying her best to do the right thing.

Then an act of defiance, a challenge to her authority, a attack on her last child, would have had her react as she always does, with no advisor to stop her, to appeal to her sense of compassion, her humanity. this time she focuses that rage on the city, a city she was going to spare but they didn't bend the knee. (Or so she thinks) she burns it to the ground.

That, at least, would have been true to her character even as she slips into madness. It could have been at least slightly justified. As it stands, she hates bells and decides everyone must die because **** bells.
 
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Just a reminder:

- GRRM wanted 4 seasons to wrap up the show.
- HBO wanted 2 seasons to wrap up the show.
- D&D want to **** off and make bank doing the next Star Wars trilogy, so we got 6 episodes.

So anyone saying this shit makes sense, you're playing yourself. Hope you enjoy the next Star Wars trilogy, because GoT died for it.
 
zeke said:
- the northerners hated her
- actually all the westerosi hated her
- she finds out jon is the real heir
- she loses 2 dragons
- she loses Jorah
- she loses missandei
- missandei's dying words tell her to burn it all
- jon betrays her
- tyrion betrays her
- varys betrays her
- jon can't even fake still loving her
- Oh yeah her dad was the ****ing MAD KING WHO BURNED EVERYTHINV TO THE GROUND
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This all makes sense to me.

The only part that interrupted my enjoyment of the cinematography and music (which makes the show for me) and gave me pause was that after they were so unstoppable vs the dragon previously, no one could hit a shot against one dragon this week. Would’ve been more easily explained or made more sense if they’d managed to make it seem like it was more of a fortunate headshot or something rather than hitting him 3 times.

But I find the attitude towards people that still enjoy the show to be shitty.
 
hockeylover said:
This all makes sense to me.

The only part that interrupted my enjoyment of the cinematography and music (which makes the show for me) and gave me pause was that after they were so unstoppable vs the dragon previously, no one could hit a shot against one dragon this week. Would’ve been more easily explained or made more sense if they’d managed to make it seem like it was more of a fortunate headshot or something rather than hitting him 3 times.

But I find the attitude towards people that still enjoy the show to be shitty.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/wildtarg...04534.ampproject.net/1904301721170/frame.html
 
Altair said:
The way I laid it out would have stayed true to her character and still have her be the mad queen who burns a city.

She would have faced all her struggles, with Jon, the north, loss of 2 of her dragons, jorah, her best friend, betrayal by jon Tyrion and Varys, but have her trying her best to do the right thing.

Then an act of defiance, a challenge to her authority, a attack on her last child, would have had her react as she always does, with no advisor to stop her, to appeal to her sense of compassion, her humanity. this time she focuses that rage on the city, a city she was going to spare but they didn't bend the knee. (Or so she thinks) she burns it to the ground.

That, at least, would have been true to her character even as she slips into madness. It could have been at least slightly justified. As it stands, she hates bells and decides everyone must die because **** bells.
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You sound like a great writer.

Anyways, she doesn't hate bells.
 
MindzEye said:
Just a reminder:

- GRRM wanted 4 seasons to wrap up the show.
- HBO wanted 2 seasons to wrap up the show.
- D&D want to **** off and make bank doing the next Star Wars trilogy, so we got 6 episodes.

So anyone saying this shit makes sense, you're playing yourself. Hope you enjoy the next Star Wars trilogy, because GoT died for it.
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The last 2 seasons have been largely shit.

This episode was good though.
 
As Zeke mentioned, main issue is that Emilia Clarke is just not a great actress. A great actress would have pulled this off and not make the audience feel she just turned a 180 over one episode.
 
CTheBigPicture said:
As Zeke mentioned, main issue is that Emilia Clarke is just not a great actress. A great actress would have pulled this off and not make the audience feel she just turned a 180 over one episode.
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After watching Solo, I will agree with that.

That said, I cannot remember her being really out of her depth in GOT before season 8.
 
zeke said:
- the northerners hated her
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No, they didn't hate her---especially after the battle against the army of the dead.

They just didn't like her as much as Jon. Y'know...the guy who actually grew up in the North and has been fighting for it his whole life.

- actually all the westerosi hated her
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Yes, everybody in Westeros hated her.

...except for Dorne, the Reach and a bunch of the Iron Islands, who rallied to her cause immediately and who the show confirmed this season were still supporting her leading up to the last episode. As well as the North and the Vale, who also joined her cause after the battle against the army of the dead.

So the sum total of Westerosi who weren't supporting her were Cersei and her horny emo pirate sidekick...who had so little support themselves in Westeros they had to hire mercenaries.

- she finds out jon is the real heir
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She also found out that he believed in her and supported her claim even though he technically had a better one.

- she loses 2 dragons
- she loses Jorah
- she loses missandei
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Yep, that all sucks. No question.

Not "driven to mass murdering psychopathy in the space of two episodes" level of suckage, though.

- missandei's dying words tell her to burn it all
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I don't think that's how it was meant.

"Dracarys" was the word that freed her from slavery, so she made it her last word.

- jon betrays her
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Not really.

- tyrion betrays her
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Again, not really.

Unless you consider repeatedly giving her really stupid advice betrayal, since there was no indication she knew yet that Tyrion had freed Jaime.

- varys betrays her
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Her most recently hired advisor who's betrayed ever monarch he's ever served decided to betray her.

Yep, that'd drive me to insanity in no time flat.

- jon can't even fake still loving her
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Yes, I too get the urge to burn cities to the ground when my significant other won't throw me a lay.

- Oh yeah her dad was the ****ing MAD KING WHO BURNED EVERYTHINV TO THE GROUND
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That dude's also Jon's grandpappy.

So it'd be totally good writing if the series ends with Jon stealing Drogon and burning Winterfell to the ground, 'cos Targs can just go crazy at any time, right?
 
zeke said:
The last 2 seasons have been largely shit.
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Yes, because otherwise very smart characters started acting very dumb to generate the necessary plot points the writers wanted. Tyrion specifically became worse than useless, but full on detrimental to the point where you would be excused for thinking that he was secretly working with Cersei this entire time.

This episode was good though.
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Just another plot point forced on us without functioning story telling. But yes, it was beautifully shot and fully conveyed the horror of the situation. Just like Episode 3, just like S7/E7, etc.
 
LeafGm said:
That dude's also Jon's grandpappy.

So it'd be totally good writing if the series ends with Jon stealing Drogon and burning Winterfell to the ground, 'cos Targs can just go crazy at any time, right?
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If this season had a episode 8, that would be it.
 
So it'd be totally good writing if the series ends with Jon stealing Drogon and burning Winterfell to the ground, 'cos Targs can just go crazy at any time, right?
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Let's also examine how forced it was that she lost those people

- She loses dragon 1 when she listens to dumb Tyrion's advice about trusting his sister with the fate of the realm, if only we could hijack and transport a ****ing wight. They had to turn Tyrion from the most clever mother****er on the planet to a bumbling idiot to make this happen.

- She loses Jorah.....okay, but she also let Jorah lead a ****ing death charge in the night against an army of corpses. Also, a knight in heavy plate died because the story required his heavy plate to react to knives like it was made out of paper mache. So yes, Jorah died, but again everyone who should have known better acted like a complete moron the entire episode. Hilariously bad defence tactics, armor that stopped behaving like armor, one of your most experienced military commanders leading a charge in the dark, etc.

- She loses Dragon #2...to 3 shots that are almost as close to literally impossible as you can get, taken from a yet again teleporting naval force. To weapons that were immediately nerfed for the next episode because now they needed dragons to be OP instead of vulnerable again.

- She loses Miss Sunday....connected to the horseshit event in which she lost dragon #2.


This is why some of us are saying that this was rushed and felt forced. It's not that the Mad Queen is a bad angle, it's that the plot points required to drive her mad, were so poorly written and so rushed.
 
LeafGm said:
No, they didn't hate her---especially after the battle against the army of the dead.

They just didn't like her as much as Jon. Y'know...the guy who actually grew up in the North and has been fighting for it his whole life.


Yes, everybody in Westeros hated her.

...except for Dorne, the Reach and a bunch of the Iron Islands, who rallied to her cause immediately and who the show confirmed this season were still supporting her leading up to the last episode. As well as the North and the Vale, who also joined her cause after the battle against the army of the dead.

So the sum total of Westerosi who weren't supporting her were Cersei and her horny emo pirate sidekick...who had so little support themselves in Westeros they had to hire mercenaries.
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They rallied to her, but none of them trusted her, as Sansa and the northerners made clear.


She also found out that he believed in her and supported her claim even though he technically had a better one.
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Eh, just because he said it, doesn't mean she would believe it. Especially when he runs off and tells hisnramily against her orders.


Yep, that all sucks. No question.

Not "driven to mass murdering psychopathy in the space of two episodes" level of suckage, though.
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Eh literally left all by herself with no friends left except a former lover who can barely kiss her and is the rightful heir to the throne.


I don't think that's how it was meant.

"Dracarys" was the word that freed her from slavery, so she made it her last word.
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Really?

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Not really.
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She told him very clearly that the only way it would work was for him to not tell anyone, particularly his family. She repeated that more than once.

And be ran off and immediately told his family.


Again, not really.

Unless you consider repeatedly giving her really stupid advice betrayal, since there was no indication she knew yet that Tyrion had freed Jaime.
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Her Hand heard that someone else had a better claim on her throne and he didn't run to her with the news - he ran directly to the most connected Insider in the realm, and told him first.

Her most recently hired advisor who's betrayed ever monarch he's ever served decided to betray her.

Yep, that'd drive me to insanity in no time flat.
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She literally had nobody left who hadn't betrayed her, except for Mr.worm, who also just had his world shattered.


Yes, I too get the urge to burn cities to the ground when my significant other won't throw me a lay.
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I mean yeah, heartbreak is probably the biggest cause of insanity there is. Especially when the guy has a betternclaimnthan you do.

That dude's also Jon's grandpappy.

So it'd be totally good writing if the series ends with Jon stealing Drogon and burning Winterfell to the ground, 'cos Targs can just go crazy at any time, right?
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Actually yeah - like I mentioned in my first post, if the writers have any brains left at all this should mean that Jon sacrifices himself and brings Dany and Dragon down with him. Hopefully that's what they do.

This turn has to mean that the targs are fatally tainted and have to be destroyed. Jon's Starkness I guess could save him but really shouldn't - at best it should give him the wisdom to remove his bloodline forever.

And then they can unite the stark and baratheon bloodlines with arya and gendry, with the lions and dragons destroyed.

Of course, the writers are dumb enough that they probably won't bother trying to be consistent.

But I will never think that Dany going full Mad Queen was anything but the right decision, despite all their other dumb mistakes.
 
They have a chance to save the show yet.

Maybe I'm free from some sentiment because I've wanted Jon and Dany to die for a while now, while it seems like everybody has wanted them to get married and rule the kingdom. Dany doing the heel turn was imo badly needed and long overdue.
 
MindzEye said:
This is why some of us are saying that this was rushed and felt forced. It's not that the Mad Queen is a bad angle, it's that the plot points required to drive her mad, were so poorly written and so rushed.
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Yep, this is it exactly.

Like...take Breaking Bad for example. It started off with the protagonist of the story as a broke, dying high school teacher desperately trying to leave some semblance of financial security behind for his family, and ended with that same dude becoming a remorseless murdering drug kingpin who left his family utterly destroyed.

Nobody complained about Walt turning into a bad guy or leaving nothing but smoking wreckage behind him, because the show slowly took us there in a believable way with a brilliantly written story, and really, it was that journey to him becoming an unquestionably morally black character that was the best part of the story.

That's not what we got here with Daenerys. We got a character rushed into doing a complete 180 over the space of a few episodes from the way she'd been for 7+ seasons on the basis of some really cheaply contrived plot points that threw every bit of logic and previous character development out the window.
 
LeafGm said:
No, they didn't hate her---especially after the battle against the army of the dead.

They just didn't like her as much as Jon. Y'know...the guy who actually grew up in the North and has been fighting for it his whole life.


Yes, everybody in Westeros hated her.

...except for Dorne, the Reach and a bunch of the Iron Islands, who rallied to her cause immediately and who the show confirmed this season were still supporting her leading up to the last episode. As well as the North and the Vale, who also joined her cause after the battle against the army of the dead.

So the sum total of Westerosi who weren't supporting her were Cersei and her horny emo pirate sidekick...who had so little support themselves in Westeros they had to hire mercenaries.


She also found out that he believed in her and supported her claim even though he technically had a better one.


Yep, that all sucks. No question.

Not "driven to mass murdering psychopathy in the space of two episodes" level of suckage, though.


I don't think that's how it was meant.

"Dracarys" was the word that freed her from slavery, so she made it her last word.


Not really.


Again, not really.

Unless you consider repeatedly giving her really stupid advice betrayal, since there was no indication she knew yet that Tyrion had freed Jaime.


Her most recently hired advisor who's betrayed ever monarch he's ever served decided to betray her.

Yep, that'd drive me to insanity in no time flat.


Yes, I too get the urge to burn cities to the ground when my significant other won't throw me a lay.


That dude's also Jon's grandpappy.

So it'd be totally good writing if the series ends with Jon stealing Drogon and burning Winterfell to the ground, 'cos Targs can just go crazy at any time, right?
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The look on her face before she was beheaded said burn this ****er to the ground to me

Also I think trying to justify what can and can’t make a character break and what doesn’t is silly but I do agree with Zeke

The north and Vale always had Sansas back which in turn had Jons back. They never really wanted anything to do with Dany but did so to survive.

She went from on top of the world about to become Queen with the love of her life by her side to finding out the guy she has been ****ing is really her nephew who is about to get anointed as the true king in the eyes of most of the people

Sure the process was sped up dramatically but that was expected trying to rush this.
 
zeke said:
They have a chance to save the show yet.

Maybe I'm free from some sentiment because I've wanted Jon and Dany to die for a while now, while it seems like everybody has wanted them to get married and rule the kingdom. Dany doing the heel turn was imo badly needed and long overdue.
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I feel like you're one of the few who feel this way.

I think everyone else was happy about episode 1, feeling the hype about 2, crushed during 3, losing hope by 4, and 5 I don't think anyone gives a shit anymore.

But hey, you liked it, so it must be okay.
 
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