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OT: American Politics

zeke said:
And there is nothing partisan about simply saying "we believe he should be impeached, here is the evidence, but we refuse to proceed with impeachment without the GOP joining us, because impeachment cannot be used, or even have a hint of being used as, a partisan weapon, for the good of the country.". That is the opposite of partisan.
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There's no point to impeaching him if it doesn't actually do anything. And given that it doesn't do anything unless if you get 2/3 of the Senate, yeah, you need the GOP on board to even bother talking about it.
 
zeke said:
No.

You cannot turn refusing to be partisan into partisan.

There are multiple "right things to do". And punishing one individual is not the "right thing" they should be caring about, and not the "right thing" that Impeachment is even meant to address.
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I agree with you, they are far better off calling all Trumps bluffs about infrastructure, healthcare etc. remember that for every voter that wants impeachment there are two that don’t.

Stay the course, don’t fall into Mitch’s trap.
 
Just keep hammering away, they don't need to impeach (yet).

Just in the last couple of days:

- A federal judge required one of Trump's accounting firms to turn over 8 years of TrumpCo tax records to Congress
- Another federal judge denied a motion by Trump attorneys that was attempting to block Deutsche Bank from turning over banking records to Congress
- An internal IRS memo from their legal council said that they had to turn over Trump's records to Congress

That TrumpCo has been a defacto criminal organization for nearly two decades is one of the worst kept secrets on the planet. Congress is about to get their hands on the details. Drag everything into the light of day.
 
From a reporter that was in the courtroom today:

https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1131290362100756482

Adam Klasfeld
‏Verified account @KlasfeldReports

In citing that legit purpose, Ramos notes that the House said it's investigating more than $2 billion in loans to President Trump and business-wide compliance with money laundering laws.



Adam Klasfeld
‏Verified account @KlasfeldReports
8h8 hours ago

Ramos also notes that the intelligence and counterintel investigations are looking into foreign money and interests in Trump's sprawling business empire. (This is a summary: Ramos is reciting this at a brisk clip.)



Adam Klasfeld
‏Verified account @KlasfeldReports
8h8 hours ago

Ramos: "These subpoenas are all in service of facially legitimate investigative purposes."
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What are the odds that Donnie didn't lie on his loan application? That's bank fraud just as an appetizer.
 
MindzEye said:
Just keep hammering away, they don't need to impeach (yet).

Just in the last couple of days:

- A federal judge required one of Trump's accounting firms to turn over 8 years of TrumpCo tax records to Congress
- Another federal judge denied a motion by Trump attorneys that was attempting to block Deutsche Bank from turning over banking records to Congress
- An internal IRS memo from their legal council said that they had to turn over Trump's records to Congress

That TrumpCo has been a defacto criminal organization for nearly two decades is one of the worst kept secrets on the planet. Congress is about to get their hands on the details. Drag everything into the light of day.
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And Governor Cuomo just signed a new bill into law...
 
Oh, and like the ruling the other day, team Trump requested a stay pending appeal and were denied. So Deutsche is now on the clock to turn over the requested documents to satisfy the subpoena.

Deutsche has stated that they will comply.
 
Glenn Thrush @GlennThrush
21s
Pelosi tells House caucus Trump wants to be impeached so Senate can clear him once and for all, per person in room.
 
zeke said:
Glenn Thrush @GlennThrush
21s
Pelosi tells House caucus Trump wants to be impeached so Senate can clear him once and for all, per person in room.
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Bingo.

This guy has decades worth of very illegal dirt on him and they're just now getting below the surface level. Bring it all out. If the Republicans aren't going to play ball on impeachment, fine. Put all his dirt out in the open, beat him in an election and then leave him to the wolves that will be waiting outside the gate for him on day 1 of his civilian life.
 
JackBurton said:
Thing that worries me is then you are hanging your hopes on beating him so much more. What if you don't?
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I don't think people are thinking this through...so if you impeach, and don't have 2/3rds of the Senate, you're guaranteed a not guilty verdict. Guaranteed. You've fired the last bullet in the chamber and it's guaranteed to miss. There are way too many low information voters that will take that as proof that this was all a "witch hunt" that Trump won because he's innocent, etc, etc.

They have the tools to investigate the shit out of him right now. Use that to it's greatest impact. Investigate everything, make every greasy dealing he's ever made public. While you're doing that, he's going to flail around like the moron he is and be absolutely useless legislatively. Use that vacuum of leadership to put your best people into the media spotlight to talk about a better way. The only people not tired of Trump are the 41% true believers and they're not immune to apathy. Give them every reason to stay home on election day, and give the 59% every reason to enthusiastically show up. Pour heaps of money at the coin toss Senate races so that even if Trump somehow does win a 2nd term, he's facing a Democrat Congress & Senate, and he's got nothing to do with the running of the country beyond angry tweets.

Gain enough momentum, and show the Republicans that they're going to get steamrolled in the next election (again), and then maybe you'll get enough vulnerable (R) Senators that might roll.
 
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JackBurton said:
Thing that worries me is then you are hanging your hopes on beating him so much more. What if you don't?
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1. the people have to decide this. if they don't, then there's nothing that can be done.
2. getting rid of trump doesn't fix the problem. fact is, trump is an honest reponse to very real problems in the political system. impeaching him may even exacerbate those problems, not fix them.
 
Justin Amash @justinamash
12m
Mueller’s report describes a consistent effort by the president to use his office to obstruct or otherwise corruptly impede the Russian election interference investigation because it put his interests at risk.

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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The president has an obligation not to violate the public trust, including using official powers for corrupt purposes. For instance, presidents have the authority to nominate judges, but a president couldn’t select someone to nominate because they’d promised the president money.

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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This principle extends to all the president’s powers, including the authority over federal investigations, federal officials, and pardons.

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Justin Amash
@justinamash
President Trump had an incentive to undermine the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election, which included investigating contacts between Russia and the Trump campaign.

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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The investigation threatened to uncover information, including criminal activity, that could put Trump’s interests at risk. Ultimately, the investigation did uncover very unflattering information about the president, his family, his associates, his campaign, and his business.

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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It also revealed criminal activities, some of which were committed by people in Trump’s orbit and, in the case of Michael Cohen’s campaign finance violation, on Trump’s behalf.

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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The investigation began before the president was elected and inaugurated. After Trump assumed the powers of the presidency, Mueller’s report shows that he used those powers to try to obstruct and impede the investigation.

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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Some excuse Trump’s conduct based on allegations of issues with the investigation, but no one disputes the appropriateness of investigating election interference, which included investigating contacts between the Trump campaign and people connected to the Russian government.

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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Some examples in Mueller’s report of the president’s obstructing and impeding the investigation include:

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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1. Trump asked the FBI director to stop investigating Michael Flynn, who had been his campaign adviser and national security adviser, and who had already committed a crime by lying to the FBI.

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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2. After AG Sessions recused himself from the Russian investigation on the advice of DoJ ethics lawyers, Trump directly asked Sessions to reverse his recusal so that he could retain control over the investigation and help the president.

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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3. Trump directed the White House counsel, Don McGahn, to have Special Counsel Mueller removed on the basis of pretextual conflicts of interest that Trump’s advisers had already told him were “ridiculous” and could not justify removing the special counsel.

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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4. When that event was publicly reported, Trump asked that McGahn make a public statement and create a false internal record stating that Trump had not asked him to fire the special counsel, and suggested that McGahn would be fired if he did not comply.

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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5. Trump asked Corey Lewandowski, his former campaign manager, to tell AG Sessions to limit the special counsel’s investigation only to future election interference. Trump said Lewandowski should tell Sessions he was fired if he would not meet with him.

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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6. Trump used his pardon power to influence his associates, including Paul Manafort and Michael Cohen, not to fully cooperate with the investigation.

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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Trump, through his own statements—such as complaining about people who "flip" and talk to investigators—and through communications between his personal counsel and Manafort/Cohen, gave the impression that they would be pardoned if they did not fully cooperate with investigators.

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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Manafort ultimately breached an agreement to cooperate with investigators, and Cohen offered false testimony to Congress, including denying that the Trump Tower Moscow project had extended to June 2016 and that he and Trump had discussed traveling to Russia during the campaign.

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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Both men have been convicted for offering false information, and Manafort’s lack of cooperation left open some significant questions, such as why exactly he provided an associate in Ukraine with campaign polling data, which he expected to be shared with a Russian oligarch.

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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Some of the president’s actions were inherently corrupt. Other actions were corrupt—and therefore impeachable—because the president took them to serve his own interests.

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Justin Amash @justinamash
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The president has authority to fire federal officials, direct his subordinates, and grant pardons, but he cannot do so for corrupt purposes; otherwise, he would always be allowed to shut down any investigation into himself or his associates, which would put him above the law.
 
lecoqsportif said:
Assange is truly, deeply phoqued.
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Turns out, you badmouth the country allowing you to live in their embassy to avoid criminal charges and they will kick you out to face those charges.

Manning is in jail too, go figure, the two central figures of wikileaks
 
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