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OT: American Politics

Every government has targeted and killed people.

That's like saying every government has gone to war (not actually true).

No US government ever had an out-in-the-open assassination program that included targeting American citizens involving regular meetings with the president and his cabinet.

It has certainly been done previously but always covertly. Covertly, because it is illegal by international law, and in the US and other so-called democracies, by domestic law. It is as undemocratic as it gets -- targeted extrajudicial killings.

I find it remarkable the shit people will defend when it was Obama doing it.
 
Impeached. Not convicted.

The Democrats have no choice, otherwise they are smoked in 2020.

can't agree with that at all.

Dems instigating impeachment proceedings would be an epic, epic fail. A) it wouldn't get the votes in the end; B) it would only rile up Trump voters for 2020; C) Mitch & Co. would be OVERJOYED to see Trump impeached while the Dems take all the political blowback for it.

The smart play, imo, is for the Dems to make it abundantly clear to the public the many, many impeachable offenses which Trump has committed - but then insist that any impeachment proceedings must be initiated by the GOP. Explain that Dems instigating impeachment proceedings would simply turn it into a partisan issue, when it is anything but. If the GOP acts, then good on them - but they won't. And when they don't act despite clear evidence, then they will have to deal with the political blowback for refusing to do their job. Either the GOP begins impeachment proceedings or the voters vote Trump out - that's the only positive way out of this mess. Trump being impeached does not solve any problem.....well actually it solves one guy's problem - Mitch McConnell's problem - i.e. "how do we get rid of this clown and get our party back under our control without pissing off Trump's base - or even better, while riling up Trump's base behind us?"

Nope. Make it crystal clear that Trump deserves impeachment and that the GOP is cravenly abdicating their responsibilities to the Rule of Law and Democracy for pure partisanship. Then make them pay for that at the polls. That's the only play, imo.
 
They loathed him in 2016, they still do, they're just garden variety scumbags who suck up to power. Kinda like all the dems who lined up behind Obama as he launched an assassination campaign that included American citizens -- was that an impeachable offense? How did that jive with your love of democracy and the rule of law, zeke?

complex subject, but in a big picture analysis, Obama made every effort to reduce American military aggression around the world, despite inheriting two massive wars. In fact, there's a decent argument to be made that he withdrew too quickly, which caused some major problems.

again this bothsidesing bugs me - Bush inherits peace but starts 2 endless wars, Obama inherits 2 wards and ends them - yet you dismiss them as both the same. We get a new war every time a republican takes office, and we end them when democrats are in office.
 
Investigate it to your hearts content. I still haven't had anyone show me that the crime committed carries anything more than administrative penalties.

Process crimes like obstruction of justice by wiping a server that was subpoenaed. Process. Crimes. Sounds familiar.

ONE side cheats.

:wink
 
That's like saying every government has gone to war (not actually true).

No US government ever had an out-in-the-open assassination program that included targeting American citizens involving regular meetings with the president and his cabinet.

It has certainly been done previously but always covertly. Covertly, because it is illegal by international law, and in the US and other so-called democracies, by domestic law. It is as undemocratic as it gets -- targeted extrajudicial killings.

I find it remarkable the shit people will defend when it was Obama doing it.

Seriously? Your bar is overt assassination programs?

Ask Jason Bourne.
 
complex subject, but in a big picture analysis, Obama made every effort to reduce American military aggression around the world, despite inheriting two massive wars. In fact, there's a decent argument to be made that he withdrew too quickly, which caused some major problems.

again this bothsidesing bugs me - Bush inherits peace but starts 2 endless wars, Obama inherits 2 wards and ends them - yet you dismiss them as both the same. We get a new war every time a republican takes office, and we end them when democrats are in office.

There was a Democrat in office for the start of WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia. Just because things don’t happen during your lifetime doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. You’re very selective in your research and posting. Very CNN of you.

As for Bush 43, it’s not like the largest attack on US mainland soil occurred or anything. Amarite?

The fact that you can’t understand that your bias seriously clouds your judgment is quite telling. The left uses #bothsides in an attempt to justify their actions and render them immune to criticism, it’s ridiculous. This isn’t a zero sum game, the bullshit of “oh well the GOP is worse” is utter crap. In fact, your use of #bothsides renders your opinions irrelevant to me because it’s as lazy as adding “gate” to the end of any scandal.

Only GOP start wars while Dems end them. LOL. LBJ escalated Vietnam while Nixon actually tried to end it. Ford (Republican) did.

Stop with your propaganda bullshit.
 
Bosnia? what the hell? you mean when Nato intervened to end the years-long conflict?

and yes, 50yrs ago the politics were a wee bit different than nowadays. the gop in no way resembles what it was then. I have outlined in detail when the GOP changed from being a typical run of the mill corrupt party to the bullshit anti-democracy machine it is today. bothsidesism ceased to be true starting then.
 
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Uh huh. Stay frosty zeke.

Just FYI, MindzEye, LCS, Beleafer, Wayward, even Altair have been able to get me to seriously think about my position on certain things. Why? Because they’re not completely in the tank and have actually used some balance in their arguments. You do not use balance, you walk in circles to your left. Should you decide to stop this onesideism that you cling to relentless you would likely be more persuasive.
 
There is one side that is killing your country, step by step. And we are seeing the fruits of their decades of cynical efforts right now on full trumpian display.
 
Uh huh. Stay frosty zeke.

Just FYI, MindzEye, LCS, Beleafer, Wayward, even Altair have been able to get me to seriously think about my position on certain things. Why? Because they’re not completely in the tank and have actually used some balance in their arguments. You do not use balance, you walk in circles to your left. Should you decide to stop this onesideism that you cling to relentless you would likely be more persuasive.

A good morning chuckle. I seriously doubt that you have ever reconsidered any of your positions based on anything from this board.

And you accusing somebody of onesideism is cute.

Carry on.
 
Such a brave man swinging at me from behind others...

I have criticized the GOP FAR more than you or zeke have ever criticized the Democrats. FAR more.

I have changed my position on several matters but you know what? Just **** off. You're not worth my time when all you do is what you just did.

Cheers bitch.
 
There is one side that is killing your country, step by step. And we are seeing the fruits of their decades of cynical efforts right now on full trumpian display.

LOL, It's not like the Dems had a supermajority not that long ago to fix things. Keep thinking they care zeke. Rule or resist Amarite?
 
Keep telling yourself that man. Like Trump, if you keep saying the lie over and over maybe people will start believing you.

It does not make it true. We have years of your posts that say otherwise.

Carry on.
 
Keep telling yourself that man. Like Trump, if you keep saying the lie over and over maybe people will start believing you.

It does not make it true. We have years of your posts that say otherwise.

Carry on.

Yes, you're right, people don't evolve or change.

My lord you're just a stupid individual. I feel pity for you and your lack of ability to suppress your preconceived notions and biases.

I will carry on because unlike you, I'm not a pussy and will always be willing to put myself out there. Such a brave man you are. All you can do is hurl ad hominems so guess what? Right back at you.

Cheers bitch.

PS, I know zeke can defend himself much better than you can. Why not let him do it eh?
 
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Specially, Lamberth ruled:

… the Court ORDERS the parties to meet and confer to plan discovery into (a) whether Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email while Secretary of State was an intentional attempt to evade FOIA; (b) whether the State Department’s attempts to settle this case in late 2014 and early 2015 amounted to bad faith; and (c) whether State has adequately searched for records responsive to Judicial Watch’s requests.

Terming Clinton’s use of her private email system, “one of the gravest modern offenses to government transparency,” Lamberth wrote in his MEMORANDUM OPINION:

… his [President Barack Obama’s] State and Justice Departments fell far short. So far short that the court questions, even now, whether they are acting in good faith. Did Hillary Clinton use her private email as Secretary of State to thwart this lofty goal [Obama announced standard for transparency]? Was the State Department’s attempt to settle this FOIA case in 2014 an effort to avoid searching – and disclosing the existence of – Clinton’s missing emails? And has State ever adequately searched for records in this case?

***

At best, State’s attempt to pass-off its deficient search as legally adequate during settlement negotiations was negligence born out of incompetence. At worst, career employees in the State and Justice Departments colluded to scuttle public scrutiny of Clinton, skirt FOIA, and hoodwink this Court.

Turning his attention to the Department of Justice, Lamberth wrote:

The current Justice Department made things worse. When the government last appeared before the Court, counsel claimed, ‘it is not true to say we misled either Judicial Watch or the Court.’ When accused of ‘doublespeak,’ counsel denied vehemently, feigned offense, and averred complete candor. When asked why State masked the inadequacy of its initial search, counsel claimed that the officials who initially responded to Judicial Watch’s request didn’t realize Clinton’s emails were missing, and that it took them two months to ‘figure [] out what was going on’… Counsel’s responses strain credulity.

https://www.judicialwatch.org/press...dge-opens-discovery-into-clinton-email-usage/
 
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Uh huh. Stay frosty zeke.

Just FYI, MindzEye, LCS, Beleafer, Wayward, even Altair have been able to get me to seriously think about my position on certain things. Why? Because they’re not completely in the tank and have actually used some balance in their arguments. You do not use balance, you walk in circles to your left. Should you decide to stop this onesideism that you cling to relentless you would likely be more persuasive.

Even altair?

You sound surprised.
 
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