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New Canadian Politics Thread

#BREAKING: Trudeau’s principal secretary Gerald Butts resigns.
 
Butts resignation is a very big deal. A lot of people put up with Justin because they figured the much smarter Butts was calling a lot of the shots.
 
CH1 said:
Butts resignation is a very big deal. A lot of people put up with Justin because they figured the much smarter Butts was calling a lot of the shots.
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Well, I doubt the average person has even heard of Butts, but it is a big deal. He's basically the equivalent to the President's Chief of Staff, so a huge name to fall on the sword/take the blame. This mess has definitely been handled horribly by that office, so we'll have to see if this is enough of a shakeup to actually make a difference, or if this is just the first domino.
 
UWHabs said:
Well, I doubt the average person has even heard of Butts, but it is a big deal. He's basically the equivalent to the President's Chief of Staff, so a huge name to fall on the sword/take the blame. This mess has definitely been handled horribly by that office, so we'll have to see if this is enough of a shakeup to actually make a difference, or if this is just the first domino.
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Katie Telfords show to run now.
 
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/polit...er-ipsos-poll/ar-BBTNgPd?li=AAggNb9&ocid=iehp

Ipsos found that, among the 1,002 Canadians it surveyed online from Thursday through to Monday, nearly half or 49 per cent said they were aware of this rapidly shifting story involving SNC Lavalin, Trudeau and Wilson-Raybould.

And it appears many are changing their opinion of the government as a result.

Support for the Trudeau Liberals is now at 34 per cent, down four percentage points, from a poll Ipsos did in December. In the 2015 election, the Trudeau Liberals won their commanding majority with 39 per cent of the vote.

Scheer's Conservatives appear to have benefited from this slide. That party is now at 36 per cent support, up three points since the end of 2018.
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Things aren't about to get any better.

Huawei CFO is still out on bail.

Canadians still detained in China.

Huawei 5G network decision upcoming.

Economy getting more wobbly.

Mark Norman case suggesting a political hit job.

He needs to navigate this without the guy who got him into politics in the first place
 
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Altair said:
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/polit...er-ipsos-poll/ar-BBTNgPd?li=AAggNb9&ocid=iehp



Things aren't about to get any better.

Huawei CFO is still out on bail.

Canadians still detained in China.

Huawei 5G network decision upcoming.

Economy getting more wobbly.

Mark Norman case suggesting a political hit job.

He needs to navigate this without the guy who got him into politics in the first place
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There is still a lot of water to flow down the river comes election time and most people will have forgotten about it. For those who didn't, Trudeau still has an edge because of weak opposition. Scheer is weak and won't be able to bring the conservator to a win so I have no problem seeing Trudeau elected again later this year with a majority.
 
Altair said:
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/polit...er-ipsos-poll/ar-BBTNgPd?li=AAggNb9&ocid=iehp



Things aren't about to get any better.

Huawei CFO is still out on bail.

Canadians still detained in China.

Huawei 5G network decision upcoming.

Economy getting more wobbly.

Mark Norman case suggesting a political hit job.

He needs to navigate this without the guy who got him into politics in the first place
Click to expand...

There is still a lot of water to flow down the river comes election time and most people will have forgotten about it. For those who didn't, Trudeau still has an edge because of weak opposition. Scheer is weak, also dumb, and still doesn't have a proper program in place. He won't be able to bring the conservator to a win so I have no problem seeing Trudeau elected again later this year with a majority.
 
Altair said:
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/polit...er-ipsos-poll/ar-BBTNgPd?li=AAggNb9&ocid=iehp



Things aren't about to get any better.

Huawei CFO is still out on bail.

Canadians still detained in China.

Huawei 5G network decision upcoming.

Economy getting more wobbly.

Mark Norman case suggesting a political hit job.

He needs to navigate this without the guy who got him into politics in the first place
Click to expand...

banning Huawei will help him in the polls I reckon. nothing like some good ole nationalism to fire up the populus.

and this SNC business will also probably be long forgotten come election time.

plus Andrew Scheer.
 
https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/polit...ng-she-was-pressured-on-snc-lavalin-1.4314776

During her testimony Wilson-Raybould said she was subjected to a months-long "sustained effort" from nearly a dozen senior government officials to pressure her into doing what she could as then-attorney general to have federal prosecutors drop criminal charges against SNC-Lavalin.

“For a period of approximately four months, between September and December of 2018, I experienced a consistent and sustained effort by many people within the government to seek to politically interfere in the exercise of prosecutorial discretion in my role of Attorney General of Canada, in an inappropriate effort to secure a prosecution agreement with SNC-Lavalin,” she said Wednesday.

Wilson-Raybould is testifying before the House Justice Committee on the SNC-Lavalin scandal, which centres on allegations of political interference in a criminal case. In her opening remarks she said that the alleged pressure included "veiled threats" if she did not change her mind.

The allegations she is responding to are whether or not she felt pressured by senior government officials when she was attorney general to instruct federal prosecutors to drop the criminal prosecution of the Quebec construction and engineering giant and pursue a remediation agreement instead.

This is the first time she is speaking publicly since the controversy began unfolding. Throughout her testimony she has cautioned her limitations in being able to speak broadly about the case because of the specifics of the waiver of solicitor-client privilege and cabinet confidence that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau had issued.

Despite this, Wilson-Raybould has offered an in-depth account of approximately 20 exchanges specifically on the SNC-Lavalin case while she was still attorney general and justice minister. She is not able to speak about any relevant matters that occurred after she was shuffled into veterans affairs.

Accounting of meetings, texts

Through a more-than-30-minute opening statement she detailed chronologically a series of communications with her office, ranging from in-person meetings and phone calls, to text messages and emails from 11 senior staffers from the Prime Minister's Office, Privy Council Office, and the finance minister's office.

Wilson-Raybould said that this pressure occurred both before and after the director of public prosecutions had decided that federal lawyers would be carrying on with the criminal case and would not be seeking a deferred prosecution agreement. She also said that she repeatedly heard from senior officials that the ultimate decision whether or not to interfere in federal prosecutors’ work was hers to make.

Wilson-Raybould said she was consistently reminded of the potential political implications in Quebec, should SNC-Lavalin be found guilty in this case and therefore no longer be able to apply for federal contracts, possibly leading to the company moving out of Canada.

Speaking about a text conversation her then-chief of staff Jessica Prince had with Trudeau’s then-principal secretary Gerald Butts, Wilson-Raybould quoted her staffer as telling her that Butts had allegedly said: “Jess, there is no solution here that doesn’t involve some interference.”

Butts resigned on Feb. 18 amid this scandal. He has denied any wrongdoing and said he was leaving because he had become a distraction.

During one conversation she said she had with the prime minister, she said she looked him “in the eye” and directly asked him if he was politically interfering in her role, after he allegedly referenced being the MP for Papineau, Que.

“The prime minister said, ‘No, no, no, we just need to find a solution,’” Wilson-Raybould said.

In another exchange, Wilson-Raybould named Ben Chin, who is Finance Minister Bill Morneau’s chief of staff. She said that he spoke with Prince to say that extending a deferred prosecution agreement to SNC-Lavalin needed to happen out of fear the company would relocate.

"In my view these events constituted pressure," she told the committee.

Wilson-Raybould said discussions about potential job losses at SNC-Lavalin were appropriate in the “initial phases” of the debate.

“But after I had made my decision as the attorney general not to enter into, or issue a directive, the successive and sustained comments around jobs, became inappropriate. Because I had made my decision and everyone was fully aware that I had made my decision,” she said.

Wilson-Raybould referred to more “veiled threats” that came around December 18 and 19, when there were “many different occasions where the appropriateness line was crossed.”

On her leaving cabinet

Wilson-Raybould believes that she was shuffled out of cabinet as a result of her refusing to change her mind about this case, something she says Prime Minister Justin Trudeau denied.

“In my view, the communications and efforts to change my mind on this matter should have stopped. Various officials also urged me to take partisan, political considerations into account, which it was clearly improper for me to do so. We either have a system that is based on the rule of law, the independence of prosecutorial functions, and respect for those charged to use their discretion and powers in a particular way, or we do not,” Wilson-Raybould told the committee.

“While in our system of government, policy-oriented discussion amongst people at early points in this conversation may be appropriate, the consistent and enduring efforts, even in the face of judicial proceedings on the same matter, and in the face of a clear decision of the director of public prosecutions and the attorney general to continue and even intensify such efforts, raises serious red flags in my view. Yet, this is what continued to happen,” she said.

Asked about why she agreed to take on the veterans affairs role despite already having what she described as “anxiety” about how she was interacted with in regards to her time as justice minister and attorney general, she said she stayed because she trusted and had confidence in the prime minister.

She was then asked if she still has confidence in the prime minister today. Her response was: “I resigned from cabinet because I did not have confidence to sit around the table, the cabinet table. That is why I resigned.”
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How she remains a liberal is beyond me.

How trudeau let her talk is beyond me.

How this happened in the first place is beyond me.

How people think this won't be around come October 21st is beyond me.
 
Altair said:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/polit...ng-she-was-pressured-on-snc-lavalin-1.4314776

How she remains a liberal is beyond me.
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Yeah, especially refusing point-blank to answer if she still had confidence in Justin, hard to really burn bridges more than she did
How trudeau let her talk is beyond me.
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He was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Had to let her speak something, but yeah, that was ugly
How this happened in the first place is beyond me.
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This is actually the easiest part of the mess to understand. Govt wanted the deferred deal. She doesn't believe in them, so wouldn't consider it. They kept pushing, she kept saying no. They pushed even more, she continued to say no. They pushed one last time, basically threatening to fire her, she said no.
Now, there's still some questions about where the legality lies. As she said in the testimony, they didn't necessarily do anything illegal, but they're certainly getting damn close to it, and a few of the quotes that she have are pretty damning. They probably thought that keeping her in cabinet would keep her happy enough (essentially, Justin's "her place in cabinet speaks for itself" ill-fated comment).
How people think this won't be around come October 21st is beyond me.
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It will definitely be mentioned on the campaign trail. The only reason it may not have a ton of traction is that the average person still knows shit-all about how this actually works. Understanding the role of the AG, what role they have to interact with the government, how much pressure the PMO can apply to try to get a deal done, the legality of it all. It definitely has enough in there to sink him. And it will definitely dig up some memories of sponsorship with the whole "we were doing this to save the economy" talk. If he decides to go on a "Mad as Hell" tour, then things are lost. But they definitely can't just hope this all blows over. More changes need to be made, but not sure what.
 
Altair said:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/polit...ng-she-was-pressured-on-snc-lavalin-1.4314776

How she remains a liberal is beyond me.

How trudeau let her talk is beyond me.

How this happened in the first place is beyond me.

How people think this won't be around come October 21st is beyond me.
Click to expand...

I’m betting she will be sitting as an independent before long. As for Trudeau letting her speak. If he didn’t it made it look like he had something to hide, so let her talk, then do damage control by turning on the charm and keep denying everything she said had any bases in fact. Jobs before ethics.

How it happened in the first place? It’s politics as usual. Nothing has changed.

The Liberals are are aready using the “unlike Harper” phrasing so that may stick.
 
anne25 said:
I’m betting she will be sitting as an independent before long. As for Trudeau letting her speak. If he didn’t it made it look like he had something to hide, so let her talk, then do damage control by turning on the charm and keep denying everything she said had any bases in fact. Jobs before ethics.

How it happened in the first place? It’s politics as usual. Nothing has changed.

The Liberals are are aready using the “unlike Harper” phrasing so that may stick.
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There is looking like you have something to hide and then there is airing out all of the dirty laundry.

The only way to have handled this would have been to starve the story of oxygen. He just poured gasoline on it.

He gave this legs to last until election day.

5 of 6 polls show the liberals behind the conservatives right now, and that was before JWR testified yesterday.
 
UWHabs said:
Yeah, especially refusing point-blank to answer if she still had confidence in Justin, hard to really burn bridges more than she did

He was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Had to let her speak something, but yeah, that was ugly

This is actually the easiest part of the mess to understand. Govt wanted the deferred deal. She doesn't believe in them, so wouldn't consider it. They kept pushing, she kept saying no. They pushed even more, she continued to say no. They pushed one last time, basically threatening to fire her, she said no.
Now, there's still some questions about where the legality lies. As she said in the testimony, they didn't necessarily do anything illegal, but they're certainly getting damn close to it, and a few of the quotes that she have are pretty damning. They probably thought that keeping her in cabinet would keep her happy enough (essentially, Justin's "her place in cabinet speaks for itself" ill-fated comment).

It will definitely be mentioned on the campaign trail. The only reason it may not have a ton of traction is that the average person still knows shit-all about how this actually works. Understanding the role of the AG, what role they have to interact with the government, how much pressure the PMO can apply to try to get a deal done, the legality of it all. It definitely has enough in there to sink him. And it will definitely dig up some memories of sponsorship with the whole "we were doing this to save the economy" talk. If he decides to go on a "Mad as Hell" tour, then things are lost. But they definitely can't just hope this all blows over. More changes need to be made, but not sure what.
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I don't think this compares, but this reminds me of the Chretien-Martin fued. That this has been allowed to be aired in public is as bad as Martin starting the gomery inquiry. Shooting themselves in the foot. JWR went for the head and Trudeau more or less gave her a open forum to do so.
 
Altair said:
I don't think this compares, but this reminds me of the Chretien-Martin fued. That this has been allowed to be aired in public is as bad as Martin starting the gomery inquiry. Shooting themselves in the foot. JWR went for the head and Trudeau more or less gave her a open forum to do so.
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Trudeau definitely comes off as pretty clueless when it comes to JWR's intentions & feelings.

First, shuffling her out of the AG portfolio because she wouldn't play ball on SNC Lavelin and assuming she'd be cool with it.

Then trying to assure Canadians that she had no issues with him with his "her presence in cabinet speaks for itself" comment, only for her to resign within 24 hours.

And now giving her the platform to personally implicate him in all of this.
 
zeke said:
he's such a bimbo.
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Yeah, he always has been. The hope was that he'd at least have the good sense to surround himself with smart people and listen to them. But it appears all of the former Wynne/McGuinty henchmen he surrounded himself with fed into and enabled his worst instincts.

What would be really cool is if Trudeau fell on his sword and was replaced with someone with real competence in their own right.

I dunno who that would be, though. Maybe Freeland?
 
Altair said:
There is looking like you have something to hide and then there is airing out all of the dirty laundry.

The only way to have handled this would have been to starve the story of oxygen. He just poured gasoline on it.

He gave this legs to last until election day.

5 of 6 polls show the liberals behind the conservatives right now, and that was before JWR testified yesterday.
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reluctantly, I have to agree with you. the Libs turned what I view as the fairly normal machinations of government into a massive scandal. not sure what the calculus was at any point in this process for them...
 
Lets keep perspective here.

The Liberals just easily won a NDP stronghold 3 days ago, and completely dominated the total vote count in all these by-elections combined.

The Liberals continue to poll well in BC, Ontario, Eastern Canada and esp Quebec.

Last month Andrew Scheer demanded that the Liberals political interfere with the Tori Stafford case. So he's a hypocrite

Harper would have demanded that the AG do what he says. It is now confirmed that Trudeau didn't ask her to do something. He asked her to consider the 9000 jobs that could be lost.

2 weeks ago Andrew Scheer spoke hand in hand with White Nationalist Faith Goldy at a protest in Ottawa.

There are 7 months until the elections and the Libs have been ahead in the polls for nearly the entire 3 years in power.

They have had no scandals until this. This scandal is unsexy and confusing to the average person.

Scheer asking one of the most popular political figures on the planet to resign over this very silly.


The issue here has been issues management. It snowballed because of them.
 
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