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Can a coach change?

leafman101 said:
But if the problems were Randy and not the Core this team is in solid shape right now, and its early enough in the season to make a difference. They are in the playoffs, the problem is eradicated and there is half a season left.

Shanny reacted relatively quickly here. He didn't wait for the 18 wheeler to go off the cliff.
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So squeaking into the playoffs instead of being a 100-103 point team (where our talent and goaltending suggests we would be if this were an averageish possession club) isn't damage?
 
MindzEye said:
So squeaking into the playoffs instead of being a 100-103 point team (where our talent and goaltending suggests we would be if this were an averageish possession club) isn't damage?
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Well first of all I don't agree with your evaluation of the team.

Second of all there are 42 games left and the Leafs are currently on pace for 92 points. 100 is still well within reach if they are indeed that good. Not sure why you'd give up on them with half a season left.

Shanny reacted early enough here to make a difference THIS season.
 
Dunno. We need a drastic improvement just to maintain this 92pts pace, let alone improve on it.
 
I don'the get it. If my team sets a record for shots allowed, I fire my coach, period.
 
Hiring a better coach this coming offseason, than we would have last offseason.....would offset any 'mistake' they made by keeping Carlyle, for me personally.

If Babcock or Deboer end up being our guy, I'll be fine with us having had to keep Carlyle around a few months longer than was ideal.

Especially if there weren't any coaches available that they were in love with last summer.
 
leafman101 said:
Well first of all I don't agree with your evaluation of the team.

Second of all there are 42 games left and the Leafs are currently on pace for 92 points. 100 is still well within reach if they are indeed that good. Not sure why you'd give up on them with half a season left.

Shanny reacted early enough here to make a difference THIS season.
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The problem is, and I see you don't get this, firing the coach today doesn't mean the team starts getting better tomorrow. Firing the coach means the beginning of a turn-around period, and many times we see the team gets worse before it gets better. So if we're on 92 points pace right now, we will probably get worse than 92 points pace before we can get better.

And this is assuming Horacek and Spott CAN turn the team around quickly. This is the part where good teams don't want to replace their coach mid-season. It is very difficult to change the system (or lack of it) when you have games every 2-3 days, you have injuries, and you are limited in drills and practices you can run cause players have to prep for games.
 
number17 said:
The problem is, and I see you don't get this, firing the coach today doesn't mean the team starts getting better tomorrow. Firing the coach means the beginning of a turn-around period, and many times we see the team gets worse before it gets better. So if we're on 92 points pace right now, we will probably get worse than 92 points pace before we can get better.

And this is assuming Horacek and Spott CAN turn the team around quickly. This is the part where good teams don't want to replace their coach mid-season. It is very difficult to change the system (or lack of it) when you have games every 2-3 days, you have injuries, and you are limited in drills and practices you can run cause players have to prep for games.
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Thats a load of crap. The Devils fired Ftorek with like 9 games left and won the cup. You don't need 82 games and a training camp for a coach to have an impact.

Yes there will be an adjustment period. But the season isn't even half over.

All that really matters though is seeing improvement from the team, and there are more than enough games left for that to happen. If the Leafs continue to bottom out the rest of the year it won't be because of Carlyle.
 
leafman101 said:
No one is saying it was the right decision. It just wasn't a huge mistake that is all that impactful at the end of the day, or worth the endless criticism of Shanahan for the past 6 months, because he managed it properly. Which is all I said from the begining, that its not that big of a deal, and wouldn't have dire consequences. And it wasn't, and didn't.

No one makes the right decision every single time. The important part is recognizing when you didn't and reacting quickly enough. Shanny handled this better than any of our last handful of GM's handled their coaches.
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I don't think that's all you said. You seemed to legitimately think Carlyle could change.
 
Here it was a resounding no.

He could still change. Thats on him though. Hockey is just like real life. They are all people. If you are struggling at your job could you get better at it? Of course, why not?
 
Yeah, the question "can a coach change" was always a silly one.....of course they can. The question is will they.


In Carlyle's case.....he didn't, and appropriately lost his job as a result.
 
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Montana said:
Hiring a better coach this coming offseason, than we would have last offseason.....would offset any 'mistake' they made by keeping Carlyle, for me personally.

If Babcock or Deboer end up being our guy, I'll be fine with us having had to keep Carlyle around a few months longer than was ideal.

Especially if there weren't any coaches available that they were in love with last summer.
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putting all that aside, they hired carlyle because he has been an immensely successful coach throughout his coaching career. what message does it send to prospective hires if you turf the guy because of a bad finish during his second season with the team - one year after he guided them to the playoffs?

good luck getting babcock to sign up for what is clearly a long-term project when he knows, going into it, that if immediate results aren't there the team will let him go?
 
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