Tank Nation Redux 2018

[GrandWazoo]

No no no....not at all.

If u recall the draw, it's a head to head matchup between two teams at a time. At one point it was the Leafs vs Habs draw for the ball, with the winner proceeding to the next round - that head to head matchup as Ellliotte Freidmann points out was a 50/50 probability.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canadiens-draft-lottery-near-miss-matthews-really-stings-now/

Ah that's the chart part that was missing. But it's not a head to head as you mentioned, it's a probability chart.

It makes for a fun trivia but the point remain that the Habs had less odds that the Leafs in that overall draft.

 

[CaptainBolduke]

Ah that's the chart part that was missing. But it's not a head to head as you mentioned, it's a probability chart.

It makes for a fun trivia but the point remain that the Habs had less odds that the Leafs in that overall draft.

Alternative facts to support a argument that has already gone sideways.

 

[GrandWazoo]

Alternative facts to support a argument that has already gone sideways.

He's still right about the Habs having the same odds as the Leafs on the 4th ball though.

 

[xposbrad]

If you look at our team at the NHL level, the prospects we have, and what we've accomplished during MB's tenure, it's actually pretty pathetic.

FIRE BERGEVIN

 

[CH1]

Being lucky with lottery balls in the right draft year is paramount in the NHL. Otherwise you end up with a Yakupov.

It's a big reason I enjoy the NFL as a league -- you don't need a top 3 pick in a specific year to get an immediate game changer.

Hockey talent is scarce. In the NFL, you can grab impact players throughout the draft. Unless you're Cleveland, of course.

 

[CH1]

I know y'all want to trade everyone and start from scratch but remember, Dummins and Bozovin who got us in this mess are still here. Do you trust them to get us out?

That's the thing -- I don't believe in tank nation and "windows". But it seems that's the only option Bozovin has given this team. When you stop moving the team forward, you gotta cut your losses at some point.

 

[DonKay]

Being lucky with lottery balls in the right draft year is paramount in the NHL. Otherwise you end up with a Yakupov.

It's a big reason I enjoy the NFL as a league -- you don't need a top 3 pick in a specific year to get an immediate game changer.

Hockey talent is scarce. In the NFL, you can grab impact players throughout the draft. Unless you're Cleveland, of course.

I think the key is to stockpile first rounders and give yourself a better chance to land that stud if not it at least gives you the opportunity to build your prospect cupboard.

Thats what Edmonton neglected to do...they constantly banked on that one pick to turn their fortunes around and today they may have landed that stud but their depth is unbelievably weak considering the decade of misery they had.

 

[TheCountofMonteCristo]

That's the thing -- I don't believe in tank nation and "windows". But it seems that's the only option Bozovin has given this team. When you stop moving the team forward, you gotta cut your losses at some point.

Yeah, I don't disagree although I suspect as long as we have Price, we will never finish low enough to get a 1st overall, if we do, it will be a Brian Lawton type, not a McDavid.

 

[lecoqsportif]

They should just let AI with Madden 18 run the Browns.

 

[Habsy]

I'd say they already are letting AI run the browns, no way that intelligence is real.

 

[GEEMAN]

I think the key is to stockpile first rounders and give yourself a better chance to land that stud if not it at least gives you the opportunity to build your prospect cupboard.

Thats what Edmonton neglected to do...they constantly banked on that one pick to turn their fortunes around and today they may have landed that stud but their depth is unbelievably weak considering the decade of misery they had.

Edmonton's previous regime was a hot mess . They couldn't develop anyone in later rounds and kept drafting the same floater in Yaks or RNH .

They missed not making a major trade involving at least one of their top picks for multiple assets .

My scout buddy mentioned in the 2012 draft they had a chance to move down 5-7 spots , and get a top 4D and a top 6 player both under 25 , plus a future first rounder and a B+ prospect and refused.

He won't mention the team , but he also mentioned a team was willing to move heaven and earth to land Hall in his draft year .

 

[GEEMAN]

Being lucky with lottery balls in the right draft year is paramount in the NHL. Otherwise you end up with a Yakupov.

It's a big reason I enjoy the NFL as a league -- you don't need a top 3 pick in a specific year to get an immediate game changer.

Hockey talent is scarce. In the NFL, you can grab impact players throughout the draft. Unless you're Cleveland, of course.

Agreed , but it also helps without guaranteed deals and easy access to free agency .

In the end it all comes down elite talent evaluators and team builders prevail in any sport.

Pats , Spurs are managed by geniuses who simply know how to put together teams and systems.

 

[lecoqsportif]

Helps to have non-guaranteed contracts.

Belichick was applying his own version of "money ball" before it was part of the language. He would just cut/trade pro bowers without warning if their contribution didn't measure up to their salary.

 

[WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou]

Helps to have non-guaranteed contracts.

Belichick was applying his own version of "money ball" before it was part of the language. He would just cut/trade pro bowers without warning if their contribution didn't measure up to their salary.

If the NHL wants to have another lock-out and get something truly worthwhile out of it, they'll push for an end to guaranteed contracts. That will send a lot of Russians back to the KHL in a hurry.

 

[east coast]

The talking heads on the mlb channel last night were talking about how they hate that baseball has become a game where you are either all in or all out, and that no other strategy really makes sense. The rewards for tanking are just too great, and they pointed to the Marlins situation where they are just bringing it down to 0 with no apparent obligation to put a competitive team on the field. The middle is the worst place to be, and fewer teams are choosing to be there, they say. They suggested maybe poor teams should not be rewarded so much for being so bad. Of course, we are all familiar with that kind of thinking as it applies to hockey.

Similarly, I hate the way the NHL draft system,despite some attempts to even the playing field a bit, ultimately rewards the bottom feeders, some of whom are choosing to be there by design and for that purpose. I have suggested randomizing the whole draft process, at least in the first round, as was done in 2005, with all teams having equal shot.

 

[TheCountofMonteCristo]

If the NHL wants to have another lock-out and get something truly worthwhile out of it, they'll push for an end to guaranteed contracts. That will send a lot of Russians back to the KHL in a hurry.

if they go that way, then they have to go like the NFL with massive signing bonuses that are prorated, no way the players will ever agree to no guaranteed with nothing for them.

 

[GrandWazoo]

The talking heads on the mlb channel last night were talking about how they hate that baseball has become a game where you are either all in or all out, and that no other strategy really makes sense. The rewards for tanking are just too great, and they pointed to the Marlins situation where they are just bringing it down to 0 with no apparent obligation to put a competitive team on the field. The middle is the worst place to be, and fewer teams are choosing to be there, they say. They suggested maybe poor teams should not be rewarded so much for being so bad. Of course, we are all familiar with that kind of thinking as it applies to hockey.

Similarly, I hate the way the NHL draft system,despite some attempts to even the playing field a bit, ultimately rewards the bottom feeders, some of whom are choosing to be there by design and for that purpose. I have suggested randomizing the whole draft process, at least in the first round, as was done in 2005, with all teams having equal shot.

Yeah, I'm also in favor of completely randomizing the draft as well.

 

[CaptainBolduke]

The talking heads on the mlb channel last night were talking about how they hate that baseball has become a game where you are either all in or all out, and that no other strategy really makes sense. The rewards for tanking are just too great, and they pointed to the Marlins situation where they are just bringing it down to 0 with no apparent obligation to put a competitive team on the field. The middle is the worst place to be, and fewer teams are choosing to be there, they say. They suggested maybe poor teams should not be rewarded so much for being so bad. Of course, we are all familiar with that kind of thinking as it applies to hockey.

Similarly, I hate the way the NHL draft system,despite some attempts to even the playing field a bit, ultimately rewards the bottom feeders, some of whom are choosing to be there by design and for that purpose. I have suggested randomizing the whole draft process, at least in the first round, as was done in 2005, with all teams having equal shot.

Teams don't sit around and hope for miracles anymore. It's the right thing to do.

 

[WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou]

if they go that way, then they have to go like the NFL with massive signing bonuses that are prorated, no way the players will ever agree to no guaranteed with nothing for them.

What choice will they have? Most of these clowns would be flipping burgers or pumping gas for a living if not for the ability to play hockey. Have you heard some of them during interviews? It's a miracle that some of them have enough grey matter inside their skulls to keep their own hearts beating. The NHLPA has always caved just like the NFLPA. Only the players' union in MLB ever displayed enough backbone to stand up to the owners.

 

[GEEMAN]

if they go that way, then they have to go like the NFL with massive signing bonuses that are prorated, no way the players will ever agree to no guaranteed with nothing for them.

Will never work on a 20 plus roster limit . Half the league would starve while watching a CMD star eat 20 mil a year .

Lockout will result in a CBA that has much shorter terms like 4 years with a restriction on no move clauses .

That will fix most of the league issues and you now can manage your roster better .