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Hamilton Bulldogs 2013-2014

I don't mind having drafted Big Mac with one of our top 3 picks last year. Maybe we reached out a bit for him but i guess they were afraid that someone else was going to grab him. I'm hearing good things about his work ethic in London so i remain positive.
 
Why was he ranked high? Because this happens every year... whether its Tom Wilson, or Mitch Moroz, or Stuart Biggs, or whoever.... some big guy who can skate a little gets taken way too high for what they do.

As for scoring 10-15 goals and being a regular on the third line.... you should probably go through the thread. The fact is that almost all players who make the NHL out of the CHL are scorers at the age of 18, not under 0.5 Points per game as McCarron now sits (8 goals, 15 assists, 23 points in 51 games). So yes, Stats do Matter here... there is an extremely short list of players who become contributors at the NHL level, but could not score in the CHL in their post draft years.

Remember that Guys like Ryan White, and Max Lapierre, and heck even Nick Kypreos, were pretty good scorers in junior hockey.

I see your point but this team needs size and I see a potential Lucic in McCarron, granted, this is quite a stretch. Perhaps I'm a glass half full kind of guy with Mac, but I'm waiting to see how he does in the CHL for a couple of years first. Most scorers in the CHL have played there for a few years and their stats traject upwards. Give the guy a couple of years. As for some of the players you mentioned, Wilson seems to have made the Caps and seems to be holding his own skill wise - and he was just drafted 2 years ago, and I love his toughness (he was drafted earlier than McCarron and wasn't exactly tearing up juniors either).
As for White, Lapierre and Kypreos, I think their NHL careers speak for themselves (stat wise at least)...
 
Lucic is the 1 in million player that every team hopes for when they draft these guys.... He's an extreme rarity. Hoping to find the next Lucic is why all these players have risen in the draft, but its not happening.

And yes, Wilson made the Caps. That doesn't change the fact that his upside is not very high. He might, might, if everything goes right become a third liner. Basically he can be a Travis Moen (but bigger) or a Turner Stevenson. Thats not the kind of upside I look for in a first round player (it can be found later, or cheaply in free agency. And thats the same thing I see in McCarron, maybe he makes the NHL, but if he does, its just as a grinder.

The fact is, your rookie contract carries about 1million cap hit for a first rounder.

Now that guy can play on your third fourth line, instead of signing a Brandon Prust (2.5 million) in free agency or
That Guy can be a pick you hope plays in your top six instead of spending 5 or 6 million on a free agent (and the best guys almost never become UFA anyways).

Which is better from a cap perspective. And this is why I'd never draft a McCarron in the first two rounds, because the guys who have both skill and size, they are all off the board later in the draft, as we talked about earlier.
 
Lucic is the 1 in million player that every team hopes for when they draft these guys.... He's an extreme rarity. Hoping to find the next Lucic is why all these players have risen in the draft, but its not happening.
And yes, Wilson made the Caps. That doesn't change the fact that his upside is not very high. He might, might, if everything goes right become a third liner. Basically he can be a Travis Moen (but bigger) or a Turner Stevenson. Thats not the kind of upside I look for in a first round player (it can be found later, or cheaply in free agency. And thats the same thing I see in McCarron, maybe he makes the NHL, but if he does, its just as a grinder.

The fact is, your rookie contract carries about 1million cap hit for a first rounder.

Now that guy can play on your third fourth line, instead of signing a Brandon Prust (2.5 million) in free agency or
That Guy can be a pick you hope plays in your top six instead of spending 5 or 6 million on a free agent (and the best guys almost never become UFA anyways).

Which is better from a cap perspective. And this is why I'd never draft a McCarron in the first two rounds, because the guys who have both skill and size, they are all off the board later in the draft, as we talked about earlier.

I can't disagree with you there but this team needed to address size and toughness in this draft. Being that this wasn't a great draft to begin with, I thought taking a chance on a guy like him was well worthwhile. If McCarron had played in the C and scored 25 goals and 55 points we wouldn't have even had a sniff at him where we picked. One of the things they mentioned at the draft was that he was a guy that made the opposition uncomfortable when he played, and thats how Lucic and Thornton and Chara make me feel when I'm watching a habs bruins game and one of them is on the ice (far more so Lucuc and Chara). I was thinking about it after he was taken while watching the draft and really, about the only guys I would have rather drafted were Fucale, De la Rose and Hartmann. Erne was said to have an attitude priblem and Zykov was another skilled Russian (I have never been sold on Russians with the odd exception). I like Hartmann but he is 5'11" or so and probably IMO projects to be more of a Brandon Prust type player with perhaps a little bit more upside.
Anyway thats just how I feel.
 
I would have taken Erne anyway... attitude issue or not. These are 17, 18 year old kids... teenagers. Many will grow out of their issues. Ryan Getzlaf is a famous example of a kid with an "attitude issue" who fell in the draft because of it.

It would need to be pretty bad to scare me away personally.


Also as I said before, there are plenty of examples of addressing size and toughness (without high end offensive talent) in the third, fourth, fifth, and later rounds of a draft. Or on the free agent market. I mean the Matt Hendricks of the world are always available, the Real Talented Players? Not as much. The Habs also addressed size and toughness with Connor Crisp. I don't have a huge problem with him because he was a third rounder, and our 5th pick of the draft. When McCarron is our 1st rounder and 1st pick, I'm a little more concerned by it.
 
I would have taken Erne anyway... attitude issue or not. These are 17, 18 year old kids... teenagers. Many will grow out of their issues. Ryan Getzlaf is a famous example of a kid with an "attitude issue" who fell in the draft because of it.

It would need to be pretty bad to scare me away personally.


Also as I said before, there are plenty of examples of addressing size and toughness (without high end offensive talent) in the third, fourth, fifth, and later rounds of a draft. Or on the free agent market. I mean the Matt Hendricks of the world are always available, the Real Talented Players? Not as much. The Habs also addressed size and toughness with Connor Crisp. I don't have a huge problem with him because he was a third rounder, and our 5th pick of the draft. When McCarron is our 1st rounder and 1st pick, I'm a little more concerned by it.

Didn't Erne have a problem with playing in Quebec (specifically Montreal)? I heard that from a few people...
 
I would have taken Erne anyway... attitude issue or not. These are 17, 18 year old kids... teenagers. Many will grow out of their issues. Ryan Getzlaf is a famous example of a kid with an "attitude issue" who fell in the draft because of it.

It would need to be pretty bad to scare me away personally.


Also as I said before, there are plenty of examples of addressing size and toughness (without high end offensive talent) in the third, fourth, fifth, and later rounds of a draft. Or on the free agent market. I mean the Matt Hendricks of the world are always available, the Real Talented Players? Not as much. The Habs also addressed size and toughness with Connor Crisp. I don't have a huge problem with him because he was a third rounder, and our 5th pick of the draft. When McCarron is our 1st rounder and 1st pick, I'm a little more concerned by it.

Personally I would have preferred Erne as well. But I don't mind McCarron as a second round pick. It was indeed a bit of a stretch in the first. Definitely not a typical Timmins pick.
 
If McCarron is so bad, how come he was ranked 35th overall by ISS?? Considering who we could have had, taking a chance on a guy his size with, granted, very raw skills was worth it I think. Personally I'll be happy if he can score 10 to 15 goals and play a regular shift on the 3rd line. His size and meaness are intangibles that you can't measure in terms of stats. Give him a few years and then we'll see, he's still only 18...

He's not so bad. Your post is spot on. The risk is absolutely worth taking.
It's just some people need to destroy a player to prove their point. Make us others literally bigger etc., then later when said players turns out fine it's forgotten or denied.
 
I don't mind having drafted Big Mac with one of our top 3 picks last year. Maybe we reached out a bit for him but i guess they were afraid that someone else was going to grab him. I'm hearing good things about his work ethic in London so i remain positive.

Well said.
 
with 4 picks in the first 2 rounds I would of taken the risk with Mac as well , even if probabilities and stats prove otherwise

what were the probabilities or percentages of the 171st pick in 1998 or the 210th pick in the 1999 draft having possibly hall of fame careers in the NHL ?
 
with 4 picks in the first 2 rounds I would of taken the risk with Mac as well , even if probabilities and stats prove otherwise

what were the probabilities or percentages of the 171st pick in 1998 or the 210th pick in the 1999 draft having possibly hall of fame careers in the NHL ?

Yes, sometimes weird stuff happens. But if you can't see the difference between taking a chance with the 171st pick or 210th pick..... and taking a risk with a first rounder... then there is no hope.

Still The biggest problem here is that they didn't take a risk with McCarron. They took a guy who if everything goes perfectly and he reaches his potential is a third liner. Thats the issue.

Take a riskier pick. Take an Erne with his supposed attitude issue but first line upside. Take a risk with a Zykov with immense talent but he's Russian. Take someone where actually scoring goals and assists is the least of the player's problems.

Don't take a guy who, well if it works, we'll have a big tough guy on our third line or fourth line. Thats not 'taking a risk', thats throwing your pick away.

You can find that big bottom line player in every single free agent class, in every single draft later... you can't find the legit talent every time in those rounds even if Detroit has two rare exceptions (and with people actually scouting europe heavily this doesn't happen as much anymore, 16 years later). Top 6 talent in free agency, its damn expensive, and even then its rare the best players even become free agents. Your looking at Jiri Hudlers, and Valterri Filpullas... nice pieces to complement a roster, but not building blocks.
 
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Yes, sometimes weird stuff happens. But if you can't see the difference between taking a chance with the 171st pick or 210th pick..... and taking a risk with a first rounder... then there is no hope.

agreed just saying lets give it some time b4 we write him off
 
agreed just saying lets give it some time b4 we write him off

No amount of time is going to change his upside. Even if everything works out great, he's a third liner at best.

You guys have even said, if he's a third liner with 10-15 goals a year its a good pick. I'm saying thats not a good pick, cause you can grab that guy without using a first rounder on him, in a million other different ways and it doesn't cost the same as trying to get real top talent.
 
No amount of time is going to change his upside. Even if everything works out great, he's a third liner at best.

You guys have even said, if he's a third liner with 10-15 goals a year its a good pick. I'm saying thats not a good pick, cause you can grab that guy without using a first rounder on him, in a million other different ways and it doesn't cost the same as trying to get real top talent.

good points but with this roster of Collberg , Hudon, Bozon, Arturi, etc...who in my opinion are top 6 or bust , they took size with their pick figuring they already have a bunch of riskier picks already in the funnel

plus the Habs were not going to go Russian with thier history of failures like Perezhoghin and MB was not going to go after character issue players like Erne and I do recall an article where Erne didnt want to play for Montreal but dont remember the source
 
No amount of time is going to change his upside. Even if everything works out great, he's a third liner at best.

You guys have even said, if he's a third liner with 10-15 goals a year its a good pick. I'm saying thats not a good pick, cause you can grab that guy without using a first rounder on him, in a million other different ways and it doesn't cost the same as trying to get real top talent.

If he ends up as our Brian Bickell that's fine and the draft is over so why keep harping on this?
 
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