Toronto Maple Leafs @ San Jose Sharks 10:30pm TSN4
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LeafGm
Well-known member
Tone down the hyperbole. As a group, this team has failed, but there are a lot of individual parts with decent, good or excellent trade value, if that's the route they decide to go.
As for Kadri and Rielly, trading them would be idiotic, unless someone's giving you a stupid return. With Franson, they just need to make sure that we don't lose him for nothing as a UFA, while also missing the playoffs to boot. Whether they re-sign him or trade him, they'll have to make a decision on him fairly soon.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
I still don't feel blowing this group up is warranted.
Sure, we gave up a lot of shots last night, but the game winner was a joke of a goal that even Kerry Fraser said today was dirty and should've been called back. We also had a ton of excellent scoring opportunities but just lack finish right now.
If anything, we're not witnessing this core to be rotten - we're seeing that it's insufficient. And the ways it is insufficient are obvious.
First, we're missing a full line of key players. Lupul is a PPG player almost if he could just stay healthy. Komarov is a heart and soul player who brings the physicality and energy we depend on. And Holland has been a solid third line center providing production regularly. It's not easy to be without these guys for an extended period.
Second, we don't have a true first line center. We've said it all before and we've lamented and lamented, but here it is in action. Although Kessel and Phaneuf are not necessarily captain types that take the team by the horns like Sundin used to, they are still key players, excellent core pieces. But we need to get that first line center to overshadow and help Kessel, and we probably need to accept the fact that we're missing a true #1 dman to let Phaneuf comfortably slide into the #2 spot.
It's tough for a team to weather the storm of a full NHL season when it is missing these two key pieces that all contending teams have, and has a full line of players missing as it depends on AHL fluff to get by. We need to have our GM out there getting creative, trying to upgrade on this still young and talented roster.
So I would look to package and send off Bozak and Lupul from the core, and maybe Franson depending on the return, and sprinkle in some other non-core pieces to make it happen. I wouldn't trade Kessel, JVR, Kadri, Phaneuf, Rielly, or Gardiner right now. If we can use our lesser core pieces to package together and bring in another prime core guy like a #1 center or #1 dman, I like our outlook. If we can't make a deal like that happen, then yes, we should trade all the short term guys like Santo, Winnik, Robidas, Polak, Booth, etc., for the best return possible, and play the kids the rest of the way, and then add in the summer by way of Nylander, UFAs, and trades, and one way or another get those two upgrades we need so badly.
But like LGM said, I wouldn't do anything until late February until hopefully we are healthy and we see truly what we have here under Horachek.
Sure, we gave up a lot of shots last night, but the game winner was a joke of a goal that even Kerry Fraser said today was dirty and should've been called back. We also had a ton of excellent scoring opportunities but just lack finish right now.
If anything, we're not witnessing this core to be rotten - we're seeing that it's insufficient. And the ways it is insufficient are obvious.
First, we're missing a full line of key players. Lupul is a PPG player almost if he could just stay healthy. Komarov is a heart and soul player who brings the physicality and energy we depend on. And Holland has been a solid third line center providing production regularly. It's not easy to be without these guys for an extended period.
Second, we don't have a true first line center. We've said it all before and we've lamented and lamented, but here it is in action. Although Kessel and Phaneuf are not necessarily captain types that take the team by the horns like Sundin used to, they are still key players, excellent core pieces. But we need to get that first line center to overshadow and help Kessel, and we probably need to accept the fact that we're missing a true #1 dman to let Phaneuf comfortably slide into the #2 spot.
It's tough for a team to weather the storm of a full NHL season when it is missing these two key pieces that all contending teams have, and has a full line of players missing as it depends on AHL fluff to get by. We need to have our GM out there getting creative, trying to upgrade on this still young and talented roster.
So I would look to package and send off Bozak and Lupul from the core, and maybe Franson depending on the return, and sprinkle in some other non-core pieces to make it happen. I wouldn't trade Kessel, JVR, Kadri, Phaneuf, Rielly, or Gardiner right now. If we can use our lesser core pieces to package together and bring in another prime core guy like a #1 center or #1 dman, I like our outlook. If we can't make a deal like that happen, then yes, we should trade all the short term guys like Santo, Winnik, Robidas, Polak, Booth, etc., for the best return possible, and play the kids the rest of the way, and then add in the summer by way of Nylander, UFAs, and trades, and one way or another get those two upgrades we need so badly.
But like LGM said, I wouldn't do anything until late February until hopefully we are healthy and we see truly what we have here under Horachek.
CRL
Well-known member
you probably meant JVR
Leo? (maybe but price is high and many wont bite)
next 3 trade just for sake of trade?
Santo?
Winnik?
Polak?
LeafGm
Well-known member
The only players on the team that would be difficult to trade, or guys that "nobody wants" would be Clarkson and Robidas. Maybe Lupul too, because of his issues with injuries, consistency, and the three years left on his deal.
Literally every single other player on the team you'd have no problem trading and getting value for (though big ticket guys like Kessel & Phaneuf would be far easier to deal in the off-season instead of mid-season, when most teams are capped out).
CRL
Well-known member
yes but how about NTC?
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
I actually think Robidas would be easy to trade. They keep sitting him, but I think he's played alright for sure, and his numbers are good too for a bottom pairing guy. He's the perfect depth signing for a team that wants vet experience, at not a steep price, and may have a hole or two going forward for the next couple of years where Robidas would be useful. I could see us getting a 3rd rounder for him.
LeafGm
Well-known member
There aren't really any ironclad NTC's on this team---I think Phil Kessel may have one, but I wouldn't want to move him in any case. Lupul, Phaneuf and Clarkson are the other guys with NTC's. With CapGeek gone, I don't know the precise details of each one, but with all of them, we have a list of, at the very least, 10 teams we can deal them to.
He's not unmoveable like Clarkson is, for sure, and could interest some teams. But I think it'd be a challenge to find a deal where you're not taking bad money back in return.
number17
Mod Squad
Agreed.
And it's a combination of things, which, as always, end up cursing the Leafs in the end.
First it was the timing of the coaching change. It may sound like a broken record now but it's true - we wasted the entire training camp (perfect time to implement a new system) and first half of the season on a coach that we already knew would fail, and that's why we're dealing with a new system in the middle of the season.
That, alone, wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't also for the fact we have to do this on a western road trip going through 4 very tough teams.
And that, as it is the leafs so of course our luck gotta be that way - we're hit by a number of very untimely injuries (Kadri was sorta rushed back so he's obviously not 100%, and we also lost Lupul, Holland, and then Komarov's still dealing with post-concussion effects, Clarkson has turned back into Clarkson ...) AND bad bounce / bad calls all hitting us at the same time.
St.L will be another terribly tough game on Thur, and we most likely will come home empty-handed, so let's hope we can build some momentum back in the East.
PKForce81
New member
Were you not the one to say we'd be just fine because of the depth? I actually like our bottom guys for most part but it's getting tiring seeing you post about Bozak constantly and ignore everything else. Away from Phil and JVR Bozak has looked great. With JVR off that top line he's looked quite good. They need more than a few games. Giving up 20 shots or less wasn't a coincidence and then the coach reverts back to old lines. It's stupid. The fix here is very simple. Bernier needs to not be touched as he's the clear number one. Nobody will argue that(well except extreme Reimer lovers). Our top 6 has huge issues with playing on the boards so you must trade one of JVR/Phil and get some size(Santo, Winnik types but more talented). It would be nice to get that on 2nd line as well.
Second, Dion is proving exactly what i thought before the season even started. He's not even close to elite. Guys are constantly rushing at him with speed and going by very easily. He manages somehow in corner battles but when there's room he just cant catch up and either falls or just lets the guy go..I'm sorry but if that's elite talent that's pretty shitty. Franson has looked much more solid and Dion pretty much the opposite. After watching this team for so long it's pretty evident that we need a true #1 dman, top line guy with muscle and get rid of Clarkson because he ruins every line he's on as he literally can't do anything right(so many dumb penalties too). That would make our team much much better instead of these fantasies where you think Getzlaf(or whoever else) can come in and do a much better job being between Phil and JVR. That's just very simple thinking imo and we'd be in the same hole as we're right now.
I thought you gave up on them in November Zeke.
JackBurton
Well-known member
There are players with good trade value. But bottom line is, the right moves need to be made.
I am a fan of blowing this shit up at the deadline/summer.
Knowing the Leafs, they'll get a top pick next year, one year too late.
I am a fan of blowing this shit up at the deadline/summer.
Knowing the Leafs, they'll get a top pick next year, one year too late.