OT: The News Thread

[Habsy]

Seriously, though, banning guns in Toronto wouldn't stop very much. I mean, I don't even know where you even go to buy one. It's not like they sell them at Wal-Mart here. We don't have the same culture as the US.

They do need to look into the spike in incidents this year and figure that out. But the solution is probably more about rooting out gang violence and adding more social support than dealing with guns specifically.

This was more to my thinking. Already having stricter laws in place, an outright ban won't curb the criminal or maniac from finding one on the street. TO is pretty close to a ban on handguns anyway.

 

[Habsy]

I disagree. Harm reduction is an important factor here.

For starters, it's good that all this lunatic was able to get his hands on was one handgun. If this was the United States and it was dead simple for this guy to go out and acquire multiple assault rifles/automatic weapons & piles of ammunition, there would be a hell of a lot more damage than two people dead and about a dozen people injured.

Leaving aside the fact that 2 dead is bad enough, do you really think it is so easy getting automatic weaponry in the States? If you do then you know little about guns and laws here. Sure, there is an issue with bump stocks but those aren't as prevalent as the media likes to report. The weapons are semi-automatic. Just like a handgun. You are lulling yourself into a false sense of safety if you believe an outright ban will change anything in a city like Toronto.

 

[Habsy]

And if you transport your handgun anywhere from its place of storage, you have to notify the authorities and a travel plan in ontario canada.

Another tidbit about the States, it is illegal to transport a firearm across state lines. Sure people break the law (like speeding) but they aren't legally allowed to do it. You must go to a registered gun shop and they ship the firearm to another registered gun shop in the state you're going to visit or move. This is for handguns and rifles unless you are flying. If you are flying you can take a rifle with you but the steps are stringent and it can't be kept in the cabin obviously.

 

[Habsy]

People getting their guns stolen is probably not the big one, it's the organized thefts...years ago I remember my wife working with some fingerprint specialists when a Canadian tire was hit, specifically for it's guns and ammo.

I've heard that a lot of stolen guns never make it to the retailer.

You can bet that Canada has a lot of stolen, serial filed off guns from the States.

 

[uncus]

If there is a market, there will always be a way.
Heroin, cocaine, pot, drugs. Weapons, exotic pets....
Big money in supply and distribution of anything illegal.
I find it funny that when things like pot are legalized, it is those who supply the substance illegally, that dont want it to be legalized. They lose money.

 

[UWHabs]

If there is a market, there will always be a way.
Heroin, cocaine, pot, drugs. Weapons, exotic pets....
Big money in supply and distribution of anything illegal.
I find it funny that when things like pot are legalized, it is those who supply the substance illegally, that dont want it to be legalized. They lose money.

Yeah, I mean when pot is legalized there's going to be a little uptick in consumption, but just about anyone who wants it now can find it somewhat easily. On the flipside, with guns, they're not that easy to get around here, so I'd rather have them legal yet with a restrictive licensing/registration system instead of being banned totally.

Toronto this year though has been weird. The 2 largest mass events have both been seemingly mental issues cases, however the overall numbers are up too not even counting them. Not sure what there really is to do, though. Can't really go out to the gangs and ask them all to politely stop shooting each other.

 

[GEEMAN]

If there is a market, there will always be a way.
Heroin, cocaine, pot, drugs. Weapons, exotic pets....
Big money in supply and distribution of anything illegal.
I find it funny that when things like pot are legalized, it is those who supply the substance illegally, that dont want it to be legalized. They lose money.

I doubt they will lose . With the government in charge you can bet this will be a fckup in no time in these legalized outlets.

You will have delays in lineups or other processing issues hindering supply .

They can drop their prices ( no tax too ) if need be and be a phone call away from supply .

The occasional social user may use the dispensaries but the hardcore dude may cut a deal with his current provider .

The other issue is personal privacy information . Arent these records of sale going to be available for avenues like employers , doctors , etc

 

[uncus]

I didnt know that .... so how would they work that? You buy an ounce and have to have a picture taken and your license scanned

 

[MindzEye]

I respectfully disagree with some of your post.

I don’t think a municipality should be allowed to ban firearms. So a hunter who lives in the city can’t own a firearm?

Said hunter could own one, simply couldn't store it in the city.

If you let one city. The next thing, the whole country bans them. I realize we don’t have the “right to bear arms” like the second amendment in the US, not that I think that is still an argument. But a lot of people in this country own firearms and use them for hunting, others use them for sport shooting. This can be a very effective method of stress relief and a great play for social networking.

Rural townships aren't going to ban guns. They have a utility out there, even if the utility is just hunting/shooting in the bush. There is no such utility for someone living in a city though.

Also I think our checks into obtaining a firearm is enough. Not sure if they are many gun owners or not on here. But you don’t just show up and buy a gun here in canada. Unlike what Trudeau would lead ppl to believe. Now whether or not we need more stringent storage laws well that’s up for debate. As they are currently pretty stiff for restricted weapons already. If people are getting them stole then maybe they should be inspected and could rightfully be charged with unlawful storage of a firearm.

Is there room for improvement? Always. Nothing is every perfect.

Well, this is where I have a hard time with the "law abiding" firearm owner nonsense. This is purely anecdotal, but having worked in the oil industry for nearly a decade, I spent a lot of time with avid hunters/shooters. We used to argue about gun laws quite a bit. When questioned, the vast majority admitted that they didn't store their guns according to regulations. That's not a law abiding gun owner, that's a hasn't been ****ing caught gun owner. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that a hell of a lot of Canadian owners of firearms aren't following all the regulations for storage.

So yeah, there's probably a lot of room for improvement. These are the types of people who get their guns stolen, not the people who buy a decent gun safe and ensure it's probably locked with all of their play toys.

 

[MindzEye]

I doubt they will lose . With the government in charge you can bet this will be a fckup in no time in these legalized outlets.

You will have delays in lineups or other processing issues hindering supply .

They can drop their prices ( no tax too ) if need be and be a phone call away from supply .

The occasional social user may use the dispensaries but the hardcore dude may cut a deal with his current provider .

Would you happen to have the number of a bootlegger I can call? I'm running a bit low on rum.

The same reason you don't have the number of a bootlegger in your phone is the same reason that in a couple of years nobody will have a weed guy anymore. The black market can't grow better, cheaper, safer basic product and can't turn them into the same range of safe, high quality value added products as an appropriately regulated private market can.

With that said, yeah, Ontario is doing it's best to **** up their retail roll out, absolutely.

The other issue is personal privacy information . Arent these records of sale going to be available for avenues like employers , doctors , etc

No.

 

[uncus]

Said hunter could own one, simply couldn't store it in the city.



Rural townships aren't going to ban guns. They have a utility out there, even if the utility is just hunting/shooting in the bush. There is no such utility for someone living in a city though.



Well, this is where I have a hard time with the "law abiding" firearm owner nonsense. This is purely anecdotal, but having worked in the oil industry for nearly a decade, I spent a lot of time with avid hunters/shooters. We used to argue about gun laws quite a bit. When questioned, the vast majority admitted that they didn't store their guns according to regulations. That's not a law abiding gun owner, that's a hasn't been ****ing caught gun owner. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that a hell of a lot of Canadian owners of firearms aren't following all the regulations for storage.

So yeah, there's probably a lot of room for improvement. These are the types of people who get their guns stolen, not the people who buy a decent gun safe and ensure it's probably locked with all of their play toys.

Im a gun owner.
I have a safe, and put the trigger lock on, even in the safe.
I also have another safe for valuables and put my ammo in there.
I have had 2 family members die from gun accidents. Both were shot while hunting by residents in the southern ontario cities.
It is like riding a motorcycle .... you get the clowns who toss and turn in the traffic without regard for anyone else, and then you have the riders who do it right and have respect for others.
Gun owners who leave their weapons laying around or have it strapped under their bed for safety measures are the ones who will most likely get it used on them.
I enjoy hunting, but it isnt the kill, it is the thrill of the chase. It is the time spent in the bush and if successful, it is the harvest of delicious meals.
Many of these cowboys are the same ones who sit in a tree stand with a 6 pack and a bottle just itching for something to move.
These are the same idiots who come unprepared and want to practice and make sure their sighted in just before heading back out in the afternoon. Seriously.
Ya, those fools shouldnt have a gun, give them a Nintendo and let them play the bad guy in the safety of their own livingroom

 

[HabsFan1]

Said hunter could own one, simply couldn't store it in the city.



Rural townships aren't going to ban guns. They have a utility out there, even if the utility is just hunting/shooting in the bush. There is no such utility for someone living in a city though.



Well, this is where I have a hard time with the "law abiding" firearm owner nonsense. This is purely anecdotal, but having worked in the oil industry for nearly a decade, I spent a lot of time with avid hunters/shooters. We used to argue about gun laws quite a bit. When questioned, the vast majority admitted that they didn't store their guns according to regulations. That's not a law abiding gun owner, that's a hasn't been ****ing caught gun owner. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that a hell of a lot of Canadian owners of firearms aren't following all the regulations for storage.

So yeah, there's probably a lot of room for improvement. These are the types of people who get their guns stolen, not the people who buy a decent gun safe and ensure it's probably locked with all of their play toys.

The problem with the storing it elsewhere is I personally wouldn’t allow my guns to be stored somewhere else lol.

So those gun owners are idiots then. You should have a proper safe, not a gun cabinet. Also it should be secured to your wall/floor, even tho my back will tell you that nobody is lifting one of those out of a basement easily. Lol. I’m all for common sense laws but some of the stuff people purpose is not going to stop majority of the crimes.

 

[HabsFan1]

Im a gun owner.
I have a safe, and put the trigger lock on, even in the safe.
I also have another safe for valuables and put my ammo in there.
I have had 2 family members die from gun accidents. Both were shot while hunting by residents in the southern ontario cities.
It is like riding a motorcycle .... you get the clowns who toss and turn in the traffic without regard for anyone else, and then you have the riders who do it right and have respect for others.
Gun owners who leave their weapons laying around or have it strapped under their bed for safety measures are the ones who will most likely get it used on them.
I enjoy hunting, but it isnt the kill, it is the thrill of the chase. It is the time spent in the bush and if successful, it is the harvest of delicious meals.
Many of these cowboys are the same ones who sit in a tree stand with a 6 pack and a bottle just itching for something to move.
These are the same idiots who come unprepared and want to practice and make sure their sighted in just before heading back out in the afternoon. Seriously.
Ya, those fools shouldnt have a gun, give them a Nintendo and let them play the bad guy in the safety of their own livingroom

+1 same here for mine.

 

[MindzEye]

Im a gun owner.
I have a safe, and put the trigger lock on, even in the safe.
I also have another safe for valuables and put my ammo in there.
I have had 2 family members die from gun accidents. Both were shot while hunting by residents in the southern ontario cities.
It is like riding a motorcycle .... you get the clowns who toss and turn in the traffic without regard for anyone else, and then you have the riders who do it right and have respect for others.
Gun owners who leave their weapons laying around or have it strapped under their bed for safety measures are the ones who will most likely get it used on them.
I enjoy hunting, but it isnt the kill, it is the thrill of the chase. It is the time spent in the bush and if successful, it is the harvest of delicious meals.
Many of these cowboys are the same ones who sit in a tree stand with a 6 pack and a bottle just itching for something to move.
These are the same idiots who come unprepared and want to practice and make sure their sighted in just before heading back out in the afternoon. Seriously.
Ya, those fools shouldnt have a gun, give them a Nintendo and let them play the bad guy in the safety of their own livingroom

Laws and regulations tend to be written in blood. Motorcycle helmet laws weren't written for the guys who signaled properly and drove the speed limit, they were written for the twats doing double the speed limit right before they get their head caved in on the front of a truck.

The fact of the matter is that thousands of gun owners have their guns stolen annually, and I don't think there's a particularly skilled brand of safe cracker out there stealing those guns.

Those gun owners will then look you dead in the eye and claim themselves to be "law abiding gun owners" who are being punished for the actions of others.

So if you have a proper safe that you use properly, full points. There are a hell of a lot of gun owners out there not being as diligent.

 

[zeke]

Im a gun owner.
I have a safe, and put the trigger lock on, even in the safe.
I also have another safe for valuables and put my ammo in there.
I have had 2 family members die from gun accidents. Both were shot while hunting by residents in the southern ontario cities.
It is like riding a motorcycle .... you get the clowns who toss and turn in the traffic without regard for anyone else, and then you have the riders who do it right and have respect for others.
Gun owners who leave their weapons laying around or have it strapped under their bed for safety measures are the ones who will most likely get it used on them.
I enjoy hunting, but it isnt the kill, it is the thrill of the chase. It is the time spent in the bush and if successful, it is the harvest of delicious meals.
Many of these cowboys are the same ones who sit in a tree stand with a 6 pack and a bottle just itching for something to move.
These are the same idiots who come unprepared and want to practice and make sure their sighted in just before heading back out in the afternoon. Seriously.
Ya, those fools shouldnt have a gun, give them a Nintendo and let them play the bad guy in the safety of their own livingroom

2 family members literally killed because of gun "accidents" and you'll still defend your need for guns to make being in the woods enjoyable?

 

[uncus]

Zeke ....
How many people have lost loved ones to car accidents and still drive?
How many people have had loved ones drown but still use the water for recreation.
Many people have had horrific things happen yet choose to keep living ... and on the other hand, some have had terrible things happen and choose not to learn from the mistakes of others.
I use to ride a motorcycle, and have a few friends get smoked by their stupidity or else some other automobile operators ignorance. I didnt stop because of the either of thise two choices. I stopped because of the parts they took because of the cancer, made it to hard for me. I didnt ride the bike anymore, it was riding me.
I know it may seem odd to some, but one of the few things I have and enjoy in this life, is the ability to go out into the bush and be alone to test myself.
I have been with idiots while hunting. I had one jerk who shot a wood pecker because it annoyed him. I literally beat him to a pulp because of his actions. And he had the audacity to try and have me charged for assault ..... there are some real clowns out there.
I have had many many times where I had the prey I was stalking, under my sights, and I chose not to take that opportunity. I enjoyed the moment, and felt that this animal wasnt the one for me.
All if us have had lifes misfortunes, and have tried to learn from them and hopefully make it safer. Life choices dont always have a happy ending.
I have a daughter who was on life support for 6 weeks this year from drugs, and they told us a few times she wasnt going to make it and to not leave the hospital. You think that an experience like that would forever change those around to stay away from drugs ....... my son is an addict and they caught him shooting up in her bathroom while she was in a coma .... sad, but true.
Anyways, I love being alone in the bush, I am not a trophy hunter ( I have no respect for that shit) and if some idiot who doesnt know or wont operate his weapon in a safe and respectful manner ends up smoking me. Well, that is the chance I am willing to take.
I am kinda starting to warm up to the idea, MZ proposed for storage though.
If you are in a city area, any and all weapons under the name of the owner, have to be locked up in a controlled facility operated by the government. When you want to use your weapon, you sign it out and give a destination. That keeps the numbers and the possibility of theft down hopefully.
But for us in the rural areas ..... we get to have them at home under our own security. Jmho

 

[uncus]

Question for zeke.
Have you ever been hunting? Do you like being alone in a wilderness type scenario?
Also for MZ, you mentioned you are in the oil industry. Are you on the tools? Are you a welder, fitter, straw?
It is funny that so many scream about the evils of this industry yet have so very little informed information.
I have worked on repairs on lines through developed areas where the owners didnt even know that just outside they're backyard 2 lines carrying product where operating.
Just like coal ..... they talk about coal being this reallly really really bad energy alternative, yet have any of these groups or individuals studied the carbon capture in estevan. Cleaner than windmill, with all things being equal.
Just being curious.....

 

[zeke]

I go tripping all the time. I love it. and love seeing the animals.

never once had the urge to shoot them, though.

 

[uncus]

Vegetarian?

 

[HabsFan1]

Question for zeke.
Have you ever been hunting? Do you like being alone in a wilderness type scenario?
Also for MZ, you mentioned you are in the oil industry. Are you on the tools? Are you a welder, fitter, straw?
It is funny that so many scream about the evils of this industry yet have so very little informed information.
I have worked on repairs on lines through developed areas where the owners didnt even know that just outside they're backyard 2 lines carrying product where operating.
Just like coal ..... they talk about coal being this reallly really really bad energy alternative, yet have any of these groups or individuals studied the carbon capture in estevan. Cleaner than windmill, with all things being equal.
Just being curious.....

I agree with you in the misinformed of the oil industry and other industries out there. I have also enjoyed a decade of working in the bad “oil sands” and have meet amazing people here from all over the country and world. Some of the people amaze me with how smart they are and some people amaze me with how idiotic they are lol.