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OT: American Politics

Volcanologist said:
like I said...what debate? you're too goddamned scared to do anything but flap your virtue flags.

have the courage to accept that new rules have to be put in place to really solve this. we have rules because they're needed, and they attempt to enforce behaviours for the greater good.

As much as it terrifies you, a real world solution is needed, which means something other than endlessly wallowing in this oppressor-victim framework has to happen.
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here's a rule: treat women like people.
 
zeke said:
here's a rule: treat women like people.
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I think the essence of this is people can experience interactions differently and part of the lesson we need to learn in this moment of collective awakening ... people in many cases, women, experience interactions in professional contexts and other contexts differently than men.

-Justin Trudeau
 
MindzEye said:
I've avoided the **** out of this conversation because I figured it was going to end up here anyway given enough time...

This is a bigger part of the underlying issue that most people want to accept, and it's a major root of where a lot of men object to it. There's 2 sets of rules for men. There's rules for attractive men and rules for unattractive men. The bar between acceptable and unacceptable behaviour in a man towards a woman tends to land with whether or not the man in question turns her on.

A not insignificant aspect of #metoo (yes, not to be confused with the criminal shit already discussed) is almost entirely society trying to tell undesirable men to not shoot their awkward shot. Socially awkward people are socially awkward, and a big part of the underlying fabric that leads to women feeling this way is socially awkward, undesirable men taking their shitty shots at women. How do you fix that without making the majority of men feel like sexual predators for being in the same room with a woman alone? They legit don't ****ing know how to interact with them well on almost any level.
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But thats why the conversation is necessary. There has been this attitude that all is fair in love and war and it has led to a lot of damage. As a society/culture we are not open and honest enough about sex. So these conversations are important. We need to be able to treat each other with respect.

In the cases of Louis and Aziz, it wasn't just unattractive guys trying to get laid, there was a very large miscommunication in the expectations and wants of the parties involved. And we need to figure out a way to bridge that gap.

No doubt attractive men have more success, but that kind of illustrates the whole point. If a woman does not want the attention, she is entitled to say no and move on. Simply being alive does not entitle someone to sex. They have to want it too.

Thats not to say you can't take your shot, but what that means, and how to do it respectfully, needs to be discussed and likely redefined.

I do not have any of the answers, but I know the conversation is important.
 
no you guys are right - as a rule chicks are just waiting to entrap you with fake sexual harassment accusations. you better not let your guard down for one second, else you'll be next. this is a clear and present danger all us men just have to live with now.
 
zeke said:
no you guys are right - as a rule chicks are just waiting to entrap you with fake sexual harassment accusations. you better not let your guard down for one second, else you'll be next. this is a clear and present danger all us men just have to live with now.
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Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Thank you for addressing it directly.

Much appreciated.
 
zeke said:
no you guys are right - as a rule chicks are just waiting to entrap you with fake sexual harassment accusations. you better not let your guard down for one second, else you'll be next. this is a clear and present danger all us men just have to live with now.
Click to expand...

I think the essence of this is people can experience interactions differently and part of the lesson we need to learn in this moment of collective awakening ... people in many cases, women, experience interactions in professional contexts and other contexts differently than men.

-Justin Trudeau
 
those celebrity examples suck.

louis was jerking off in front of chicks he had influence over. that's not just some dorky awkward come-on.

and aziz is just fine. the accusations were made, which sucks in itself, but pretty much everyone agrees that this was not sexual harassment, and his career is now carrying on.
 
Altair said:
I think the essence of this is people can experience interactions differently and part of the lesson we need to learn in this moment of collective awakening ... people in many cases, women, experience interactions in professional contexts and other contexts differently than men.

-Justin Trudeau
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What does that mean to you? Because to me that says we need to consider how the opposite sex views our shared interactions. e.g. treat women like people.
 
zeke said:
those celebrity examples suck.

louis was jerking off in front of chicks he had influence over. that's not just some dorky awkward come-on.

and aziz is just fine. the accusations were made, which sucks in itself, but pretty much everyone agrees that this was not sexual harassment, and his career is now carrying on.
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Brown?

Weir?
 
zeke said:
don't let your guard down bud.

those evil wimmins are just waiting, lurking, ready to pounce.
Click to expand...

I think the essence of this is people can experience interactions differently and part of the lesson we need to learn in this moment of collective awakening ... people in many cases, women, experience interactions in professional contexts and other contexts differently than men.

-Justin Trudeau
 
leafman101 said:
But thats why the conversation is necessary. There has been this attitude that all is fair in love and war and it has led to a lot of damage. As a society/culture we are not open and honest enough about sex. So these conversations are important. We need to be able to treat each other with respect.

In the cases of Louis and Aziz, it wasn't just unattractive guys trying to get laid, there was a very large miscommunication in the expectations and wants of the parties involved. And we need to figure out a way to bridge that gap.

No doubt attractive men have more success, but that kind of illustrates the whole point. If a woman does not want the attention, she is entitled to say no and move on. Simply being alive does not entitle someone to sex. They have to want it too.

Thats not to say you can't take your shot, but what that means, and how to do it respectfully, needs to be discussed and likely redefined.

I do not have any of the answers, but I know the conversation is important.
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I agree the conversation is important, but the conversation is heading towards where I suggested it was: Undesirable men should know their place instinctively (but also, MGTOW and Incels are weird losers, lol). It's a pretty untenable position for ~80% of men to accept being shoe horned into.
 
zeke said:
don't let your guard down bud.

those evil wimmins are just waiting, lurking, ready to pounce.
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Miss me with that, I'm not one of those awkward cats.

Female bosses, female employees, female friends. I have no issue being one on one in any of the dynamics and never have. I'm not speaking in my own defence here.
 
zeke said:
brown was a total creep.

who is weir?

and why do you keep quoting Justin Trudeau at me?
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Don't be stupid.

I think the essence of this is people can experience interactions differently and part of the lesson we need to learn in this moment of collective awakening ... people in many cases, women, experience interactions in professional contexts and other contexts differently than men.

-Justin Trudeau
 
zeke said:
those celebrity examples suck.

louis was jerking off in front of chicks he had influence over. that's not just some dorky awkward come-on.

and aziz is just fine. the accusations were made, which sucks in itself, but pretty much everyone agrees that this was not sexual harassment, and his career is now carrying on.
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Didn't Louis ask the girls if they minded and they said no?

Still creepy but I don't think that deserves his career being completely destroyed over it.
 
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