OT: American Politics

[Altair]

those sluts were asking to be raped.

So you don't validate the opinions of women who don't agree with you.

Interesting.

 

[zeke]

Not sure what your marital status is, but I'm married. My wife has been sexual harassed. I had my reservations about metoo but assumed that she would be totally on board with it, as would most women.

So of did shock me at easter last year to hear her and her sister trash talking the movement. Very liberal, under 30 women, college educated I would have assumed they would be metoo cheerleaders instead they were going on about how in legitimate cases of rape or blackmail it made sense but that with every woman coning out it was trivializing the "real" cases of abuse. And my sister in law was talking about dates asking permission to to even hold her hand lest they offended her and how annoying things were getting in that regard.

I shape a lot of my worldview on what the women in my life are saying about it, seeing as how I'm a outsider in this world of sexual harassment, bit its clear that things are not as clear cut or PC as you seem to think it is.

and nobody thinks any of this easy or perfect.

this still doesn't excuse your moronity.

 

[worm]

Those men are pussies. Just treat women like human beings and you'll be fine. The odds that you will get falsely accused of sexual harassment are very low. Driving is way more dangerous.

However, the odds of your behaviour making women uncomfortable because you don't treat them as humans...well thats why there is a metoo movement.

Could you imagine being alone in a car with a woman?

Certain death.

 

[worm]

Yes.

They won't treat it as such though.

But don't get this wrong, this isn't a case of men think they don't know how to interact with women, its a case of men not trusting women in one on one interactions.

Which, again, was completely predictable

or they do not trust themselves to not sexually assault them if they are alone with a woman

 

[LeafGm]

Taking the particular example that started this debate and using it to pontificate on perceived flaws of the "MeToo" movement is a bit of a joke.

Christian fundamentalists like this candidate for governor, or Mike Pence, aren't behaving this way because "MeToo" has them terrified of being falsely accused of sexual assault or sexual harassment. It's a cultural/religious belief that predates the movement by quite a long time, and that you'll also find prevalent today among religious Christians, or in countries like Saudi Arabia. It's the idea that women are not fully fledged human beings in their own right that you can interact with as equals.

That, primarily, they're the property and responsibility of whoever the primary man is in their life, whether it's their father, brother or husband. And that you're besmirching the honour of that man and the woman that's their responsibility, and dishonouring the woman you yourself have ownership over if you allow yourself to interact with the woman as an equal outside of the presence of their male guardian. Because, of course, women can't help but naturally be foul temptresses, and men can't be blamed for treating them like anything but sex objects if they're given the opportunity.

It's an insidious concept that allows these old-school ****s place barriers in the way of women who want to fully participate in society, and dress up those barriers as an honourable thing. And taking this back to hockey, it's the same kind of thing people tried to keep female reporters from gaining a foothold in the business. That these poor, delicate females needed to be protected from what they'd see in the locker room, and likewise, they couldn't dishonour the wives of the players by allowing other women to see them in various states of undress, or put the players in a situation where they'd have a irresistible urge to sexually assault one of these female reporters.

It's all a bunch of horseshit that's meant to oppress women, let men off the hook for bad behaviour and it's carefully dressed up as a good thing done for their sakes.

 

[worm]

How would women get the same opportunities as men in the workplace if men are claiming they’re afraid to be around them? How is that winning?

Do I not get the promotion because someone thinks they can’t be in a room with me alone?

Holy crap, this board

worse than the habs board?


(altair is a nashville fan....)

 

[Altair]

and nobody thinks any of this easy or perfect.

this still doesn't excuse your moronity.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vo...ment-sexual-harassment-aziz-ansari-accusation

Women’s concerns are often rooted in a desire for the movement to succeed

Women who supported #MeToo were actually more concerned than women as a whole about some potential ill effects of the movement. Sixty-eight percent of #MeToo supporters were very or somewhat concerned about false accusations, for instance, compared with 63 percent of all women. Likewise, 68 percent of supporters were concerned about women losing out on work opportunities, compared with 60 percent of women as a whole.

It’s not surprising that women who were supportive of #MeToo were also more likely than average to have certain concerns, said Sarah J. Jackson, a professor of communication studies at Northeastern University who studies racial and gender justice activism. People who support the movement “understand the stakes,” Jackson said.

In her recent interviews with feminist Twitter users, she said, she found a keen awareness of the ways feminist causes can be undermined — an awareness that false rape accusations, for instance, can be portrayed in ways that harm anti-rape activism as a whole.

“It makes sense that women who are invested in the movement — are invested in having greater conversations and greater solutions to things like sexual harassment and sexual assault — would be hyperaware of the potential political and cultural discourses that could interrupt that process,” she said.

Them morons.

 

[worm]

Weird that men get so upset that they have to finally fear being alone with women almost as much as women fear being alone with men.

not even close to as much

but i get your point

 

[Bleedsblue&white]

Taking the particular example that started this debate and using it to pontificate on perceived flaws of the "MeToo" movement is a bit of a joke.

Christian fundamentalists like this candidate for governor, or Mike Pence, aren't behaving this way because "MeToo" has them terrified of being falsely accused of sexual assault or sexual harassment. It's a cultural/religious belief that predates the movement by quite a long time, and that you'll also find prevalent today among religious Christians, or in countries like Saudi Arabia. It's the idea that women are not fully fledged human beings in their own right that you can interact with as equals.

That, primarily, they're the property and responsibility of whoever the primary man is in their life, whether it's their father, brother or husband. And that you're besmirching the honour of that man and the woman that's their responsibility, and dishonouring the woman you yourself have ownership over if you allow yourself to interact with the woman as an equal outside of the presence of their male guardian. Because, of course, women can't help but naturally be foul temptresses, and men can't be blamed for treating them like anything but sex objects if they're given the opportunity.

It's an insidious concept that allows these old-school ****s place barriers in the way of women who want to fully participate in society, and dress up those barriers as an honourable thing. And taking this back to hockey, it's the same kind of thing people tried to keep female reporters from gaining a foothold in the business. That these poor, delicate females needed to be protected from what they'd see in the locker room, and likewise, they couldn't dishonour the wives of the players by allowing other women to see them in various states of undress, or put the players in a situation where they'd have a irresistible urge to sexually assault one of these female reporters.

It's all a bunch of horseshit that's meant to oppress women, let men off the hook for bad behaviour and it's carefully dressed up as a good thing done for their sakes.

That's about perfect.

 

[zeke]

Taking the particular example that started this debate and using it to pontificate on perceived flaws of the "MeToo" movement is a bit of a joke.

Christian fundamentalists like this candidate for governor, or Mike Pence, aren't behaving this way because "MeToo" has them terrified of being falsely accused of sexual assault or sexual harassment. It's a cultural/religious belief that predates the movement by quite a long time, and that you'll also find prevalent today among religious Christians, or in countries like Saudi Arabia. It's the idea that women are not fully fledged human beings in their own right that you can interact with as equals.

That, primarily, they're the property and responsibility of whoever the primary man is in their life, whether it's their father, brother or husband. And that you're besmirching the honour of that man and the woman that's their responsibility, and dishonouring the woman you yourself have ownership over if you allow yourself to interact with the woman as an equal outside of the presence of their male guardian. Because, of course, women can't help but naturally be foul temptresses, and men can't be blamed for treating them like anything but sex objects if they're given the opportunity.

It's an insidious concept that allows these old-school ****s place barriers in the way of women who want to fully participate in society, and dress up those barriers as an honourable thing. And taking this back to hockey, it's the same kind of thing people tried to keep female reporters from gaining a foothold in the business. That these poor, delicate females needed to be protected from what they'd see in the locker room, and likewise, they couldn't dishonour the wives of the players by allowing other women to see them in various states of undress, or put the players in a situation where they'd have a irresistible urge to sexually assault one of these female reporters.

It's all a bunch of horseshit that's meant to oppress women, let men off the hook for bad behaviour and it's carefully dressed up as a good thing done for their sakes.

 

[Altair]

Taking the particular example that started this debate and using it to pontificate on perceived flaws of the "MeToo" movement is a bit of a joke.

Christian fundamentalists like this candidate for governor, or Mike Pence, aren't behaving this way because "MeToo" has them terrified of being falsely accused of sexual assault or sexual harassment. It's a cultural/religious belief that predates the movement by quite a long time, and that you'll also find prevalent today among religious Christians, or in countries like Saudi Arabia. It's the idea that women are not fully fledged human beings in their own right that you can interact with as equals.

That, primarily, they're the property and responsibility of whoever the primary man is in their life, whether it's their father, brother or husband. And that you're besmirching the honour of that man and the woman that's their responsibility, and dishonouring the woman you yourself have ownership over if you allow yourself to interact with the woman as an equal outside of the presence of their male guardian. Because, of course, women can't help but naturally be foul temptresses, and men can't be blamed for treating them like anything but sex objects if they're given the opportunity.

It's an insidious concept that allows these old-school ****s place barriers in the way of women who want to fully participate in society, and dress up those barriers as an honourable thing. And taking this back to hockey, it's the same kind of thing people tried to keep female reporters from gaining a foothold in the business. That these poor, delicate females needed to be protected from what they'd see in the locker room, and likewise, they couldn't dishonour the wives of the players by allowing other women to see them in various states of undress, or put the players in a situation where they'd have a irresistible urge to sexually assault one of these female reporters.

It's all a bunch of horseshit that's meant to oppress women, let men off the hook for bad behaviour and it's carefully dressed up as a good thing done for their sakes.

I'll inform my bosses at work that they are fundamentalist Christian extremists.

 

[Altair]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1503516002

The survey also indicated 51 percent of Americans believe the increased focus on sexual harassment and assault has made it more difficult for men to know how to interact with women at work. Only 12 percent said the interactions would now be easier.

Experts report increasing reluctance from men in positions of authority to hire or work closely with women, in some cases declining to hold one-on-one meetings with female employees.

“It’s not a good thing,’’ said Kellie McElhaney, founding director of the Center for Equity, Gender and Leadership at UC-Berkeley’s Haas School of Business. “It’s further disconnecting women from networks that we’ve already been excluded from. There are solutions, but I think right now men are a bit paralyzed.’’



A poll directed this year by LeanIn.org and SurveyMonkey found nearly half of male managers are uncomfortable participating in common work activities with a woman, and senior-level men are 3½ times more hesitant to have a work dinner with a junior-level woman – and five times more hesitant to travel with one for work – than with a junior-level man.

Male managers also have grown significantly more uncomfortable mentoring women than before, the survey said.

We’re literally having executives say, ‘ I’m really nervous about hiring a woman, particularly in roles like EAs (executive assistants), that’s such a personal job … I’d just as soon hire a male,’’’ Taylor said. “It has become a risk-management conversation.

“We must figure out from an HR perspective how to minimize that, because we don’t want men penalizing women for fear.’’

To stick your collective heads in the sand and pretend that metoo isn't having an effect on the workplace and that women aren't being excluded or segregated because of it is the height of ignorance.

 

[zeke]

stop sticking your heads in the sand - women wearing all these slutty clothes is causing all sorts of problems for them.

 

[Altair]

stop sticking your heads in the sand - women wearing all these slutty clothes is causing all sorts of problems for them.

I think the essence of this is people can experience interactions differently and part of the lesson we need to learn in this moment of collective awakening ... people in many cases, women, experience interactions in professional contexts and other contexts differently than men.

-Justin Trudeau

 

[LeafGm]

I'll my bosses at work that they are fundamentalist Christian extremists.

Regarding religious fundamentalists, I talking specifically about the example that started this whole debate, which you quickly twisted into an opportunity to climb on your anti-MeToo soap box, when that specific example really had nothing to do with "MeToo" at all.

 

[Altair]

Regarding religious fundamentalists, I talking specifically about the example that started this whole debate, which you quickly twisted into an opportunity to climb on your anti-MeToo soap box, when that specific example really had nothing to do with "MeToo" at all.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...AhAB&usg=AOvVaw2dR1kyIObWenCN2nUf8P99&ampcf=1

Channeling Pence

While the new personal codes for dealing with #MeToo have only just begun to ripple, the shift is already palpable, according to the people interviewed, who declined to be named. They work for hedge funds, law firms, banks, private equity firms and investment-management firms.

For obvious reasons, few will talk openly about the issue. Privately, though, many of the men interviewed acknowledged they’re channeling Pence, saying how uneasy they are about being alone with female colleagues, particularly youthful or attractive ones, fearful of the rumor mill or of, as one put it, the potential liability.

A manager in infrastructure investing said he won’t meet with female employees in rooms without windows anymore; he also keeps his distance in elevators. A late-40-something in private equity said he has a new rule, established on the advice of his wife, an attorney: no business dinner with a woman 35 or younger.

The changes can be subtle but insidious, with a woman, say, excluded from casual after-work drinks, leaving male colleagues to bond, or having what should be a private meeting with a boss with the door left wide open.

I'm sure the increase of men refusing to be alone with women is due entirely to those fundamentaliat Christian extremists.

 

[Volcanologist]

bunch of scared programmed chickens.

too afraid to have a real debate on this topic, instead we're going to diverge into slut clothes and women being owned by their brothers and fathers, because obviously if you think a sea change in male-female work interactions is needed, it must be because you're a caveman who doesn't want to treat women like human beings.

 

[TimHorton]

hey work for hedge funds, law firms, banks, private equity firms and investment-management firms.

All places that historically have treated women so, so well. Because they're toddlers they can't find a middle ground, so instead of looking for nuance they go from one idiotic extreme to the other.
I wouldn't want to replicate hedge fund culture, and I wouldn't be leaning on it as an ideological beacon.

 

[UWHabs]

Regarding religious fundamentalists, I talking specifically about the example that started this whole debate, which you quickly twisted into an opportunity to climb on your anti-MeToo soap box, when that specific example really had nothing to do with "MeToo" at all.

Yeah, the army being stupid in their policies because of MeToo has nothing to do with Pence and his ilk being afraid of a temptress reporter.

 

[Altair]

All places that historically have treated women so, so well. Because they're toddlers they can't find a middle ground, so instead of looking for nuance they go from one idiotic extreme to the other.
I wouldn't want to replicate hedge fund culture, and I wouldn't be leaning on it as an ideological beacon.

Never said we should, but we shouldn't be blind to the fact that this is happening.

And again, Canadian Armed Forces, same thing. The result of this will be that male dominated industries will become even more of a man only club, not more open to women as a result of all this.