It could be unrelated to Nylander. We could be scouting Kadri.
2018-19 Canes Miscellaneous News Thread
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It could be unrelated to Nylander. We could be scouting Kadri.
CanadaCanes
Well-known member
Great point! Kadri for Faulk would be a nice trade for the Canes...Leafs are thin at center with Matthews out right now, but maybe Dubas wants to keep the younger Nylander in the fold and move out another asset for the right shot D he needs.
With Matthews going through shoulder issues again, I really don't think they're going to move Kadri to make room for Nylander. I think they're going to move Nylander and probably add some sort of bad contract as a makeweight for the deal. Their Cap situation is fine right now, but gets truly perilous starting next season. I honestly believe that if the Leafs were simply willing to allow a team to make a simple, uncomplicated trade for Nylander then they'd have already moved him. From the sound of it, they've pretty much resigned themselves to having to move him. The only thing that would slow that down would be an attempt to make a bigger deal ... or demanding too much in return. And again, with their Cap scenario the Leafs aren't really in a position to demand but so much .... not in terms of cap hit at least.
BTW ... I did some research because I'm not working today while my internet service gets switched over. Looks like there's a fair amount of actual reporting indicating that the Canes are negotiating around a core offer of Faulk for Nylander. I'd be VERY surprised if it's that simple, not with all the back and forth scouting going on. Again, scouting the Leafs right now is pointless if all you're after is Nylander because he's not with the club ... which is the whole point of this exercise.
cmaleski2
Well-known member
Faulk for Nylander isn't going to happen straight up. I suspect there would need to be other stuff involved ie we would need to trade more than just Faulk and the Leafs would be looking to dump other players back on us. Think something like Faulk, Bean or Necas or Kuokkanen or a combo of our upper tier prospects for Nylander and something else at the NHL level. Its that 'something else at the NHL level that we are scouting.
For the Canes to get Nylander its going to need to sting in terms of a quality package going back. Necas and Faulk like sting possibly. Or Faulk, Kuokkanen, Gauthier. Or Faulk, Kuokkanen, Fox and a 2nd round pick..... The Leafs are not going to give away a guy who is already an established 60 point guy just for Justin Faulk, its going to cost us something serious in terms of prospect(s) too. We will get another NHL player back for our troubles along with Nylander.
Would I trade Faulk and Necas and other things of value for Nylander and another NHL player? Probably. What say everyone else? We of course also need to be willing to pay Nylander $7.5 million per (or more) for a very long time.... If the Canes really trade for Nylander its going to be a another major franchise altering moment similar to the Calgary trade.
For the Canes to get Nylander its going to need to sting in terms of a quality package going back. Necas and Faulk like sting possibly. Or Faulk, Kuokkanen, Gauthier. Or Faulk, Kuokkanen, Fox and a 2nd round pick..... The Leafs are not going to give away a guy who is already an established 60 point guy just for Justin Faulk, its going to cost us something serious in terms of prospect(s) too. We will get another NHL player back for our troubles along with Nylander.
Would I trade Faulk and Necas and other things of value for Nylander and another NHL player? Probably. What say everyone else? We of course also need to be willing to pay Nylander $7.5 million per (or more) for a very long time.... If the Canes really trade for Nylander its going to be a another major franchise altering moment similar to the Calgary trade.
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TheBigKahuna
Well-known member
Toronto doesn't really have any terrible contracts to unload. Horton is probably their worst and that's not bad if he could play. Currently on IR.
Faulk and Necas for Nylander and another NHLer? Yeah, probably. I know Necas is made of shake and bake and has all kinds of skill. I'm just not convinced that any of that translates to the NHL the way a lot of people think it does. Faulk is Faulk. If he's the cost to get a real answer at center then I'm not missing him that much. And look, if we're convinced as an organization that Nylander will bloom here then you don't make omelettes without breaking eggs. We're darned close to a playoff team right now and our roster is badly flawed. Nylander helps fix that now .... Necas helps fix that eventually .... we hope. The only other guy in the Canes prospect pool that would hurt my feelings a bit to lose is Fox. Bean, Kuokkanen, Gauthier, et al? Meh. Those are guys we might miss at some point, but Necas and Fox are the only two of the bunch that I think are potential big timers. MAYBE Gauthier ... some day. I'm not saying those guys stink or anything, they're quality prospects ... the kind you use to make a big trade happen with a clear conscience and a tip of the cap to the guy that drafted well enough to give you use-able assets.
For me the question isn't whether or not Nylander makes us better in the short run. I think that's a pretty firm yes. The question is whether or not he'll end up being worth it in the long run when you factor in the money it'll take to sign him and the cost of the trade itself. That's a tough call, but it's been so long since we took a meaningful swing on an offensive player of his caliber and potential impact, that it's tough to pump the brakes. I think if you can make it happen, you go for it. We've been so cautious for so long. The market is all but begging for a big move.
For me the question isn't whether or not Nylander makes us better in the short run. I think that's a pretty firm yes. The question is whether or not he'll end up being worth it in the long run when you factor in the money it'll take to sign him and the cost of the trade itself. That's a tough call, but it's been so long since we took a meaningful swing on an offensive player of his caliber and potential impact, that it's tough to pump the brakes. I think if you can make it happen, you go for it. We've been so cautious for so long. The market is all but begging for a big move.
CanadaCanes
Well-known member
That’s absolutely absurd to include Necas in any trade!!! I actually cannot believe CMal that you even would suggest that kind of trade and think that’s fair market value. Why on earth would the Canes trade the best center prospect they have for a right winger? Faulk and Necas for Nylander is just plain dumb for the Canes today, tomorrow and 2 years from now. Faulk and Bean fine, Faulk and Janne K fine...Necas no way. For a team dying for help at center you cannot trade away the best young center prospect you have for another winger. I’ve watched a ton of Leafs games and Nylander has played most of the time on Auston Matthews wing...nothing has shown that he can be relied on to play center.
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I absolutely think it's something other than absurd to consider that Necas might not pan out as you seem to expect. I'm absolutely made of doubts when it comes to his ability to become even the kind of NHL producer Nylander has already been for several seasons. I hope to heck that Necas is an 80 point guy one day. But that day is not now, nor does it look likely to be any time real soon.
Paulie Walnuts
Well-known member
as I said if this road trip goes badly I think that puts more pressure on the Canes to make some kind of move or moves , especially if the problem is scoring. All the positives of the start are pretty much gone now. I don't think they should make a panic trade but one that is a good deal.
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CanadaCanes
Well-known member
JB, the kid has never been given more than a handful of games in North America and you already have doubts? Nylander is a winger who has never shown at the NHL level he can play center, so trade away Faulk or Pesce and any of the kids like Janne K or Gauthier, but not Necas!
bagopux
Well-known member
With regard to Nylander, the main pressure on the Canes is that someone else might get him first, and that pressure exists right now.
cmaleski2
Well-known member
Is that any more absurd than trading away a 21 year old who has posted 2 60 point seasons and not getting a huge return?
The problem with prospects are they are just that...prospects. Sure Necas MIGHT someday be great. If you are all in on trading for Nylander and paying the guy whatever crazy amount of money it will take, then you are effectively saying that you are making him one of the top players in our organization. Nylander is not going to be playing wing for us, he would be playing center, which was in natural position prior to be moved to wing by the Leafs so they could play him with Matthews. If you have Aho and Nylander, paying them a combined $16 million per, then Necas is almost a spare part at that point. Nylander already is a proven commodity, Necas is not.
I'm not saying that it wouldn't be a big risk, but you can't tell me for sure what Marty Necas really will be. We know what Nylander is already, he's already delivered at the NHL level. Can he play center? Well, if the Canes do trade for him that is exactly where he will be playing. The Leafs are not going to give Nylander away. If they don't get the 'right' offer they can simply hold on to his rights.
Are the Canes willing to really go all in on trading and signing Nylander? Just how far are they willing to go? It perfectly valid for you to think Necas is too high a price. The Canes might think that too. I would love to give them some 'lesser' prospects and keep Necas. But I'm also weary about not making a deal at all because we value our prospects too much. This isn't trading Filip Forsberg for Marty Erat. Nylander is a 21 year old established top line player already. Will Necas be better than him, ever? That is what the Canes would need to weigh if that ends up being the ask.
Paulie Walnuts
Well-known member
seems to me if Nylander was on the block they would get a lot of offers right away and it would not take long to pick the best one , or maybe try to get some offers to be upped. It would not be a long process in my opinion.
TheBigKahuna
Well-known member
Not every team has the supposed asking price of 8 million in cap space.
And the Leafs are in no place to be taking back bad/big contracts.
And the Leafs are in no place to be taking back bad/big contracts.
CanadaCanes
Well-known member
If the Canes had another solid center prospect or two like Necas on the cusp of being NHL ready,Necas would seem more expendable. I think the Canes should use their riches on defense and the Leafs need to form most of any package for Nylander...even if that means two defensemen...like Faulk and Bean and or Fox and a couple of second round picks. I know Necas is young and unproven but the upside and talent is too good to trade away right now in my opinion.
bagopux
Well-known member
Why would the Leafs even want Necas? Nylander is expendable because they have Tavares and Matthews. Why would a team that wants to win now want a player type that they don’t need now who isn’t even ready to play now? And when he is ready, he’ll just be Jordan Staal to Crosby and Malkin. Necas only makes good sense if it’s a 3 team deal.
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bagopux
Well-known member
Recent history has shown that with players who want out (e.g., Drouin) it can pay to be patient.
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After watching the interview with Brindy, in an interview for the Phoenix preview, it looks like he is saying the same things a lot of us are about Necas. Not a bottom forward and not ready for prime time. Then after sleep watching the game last night, I woke up when the third started to see how Svech and the team would play after the lines were put in the blender. It was easy to see Tevo on a line that did not look right for him, or any skilled player. If we had a Nylander there, that line would would become line #2 and Staal would drop to Line #3. Now we are in business and the lines make good sense.