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Alex Semin Mess in Carolina Getting Messier

canefanT said:
Buying him out isn't really an option given this team's finances, IMO.
T
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So you think it makes more sense to pay a guy $21M to sit in the press box rather than $14M to go away? That doesn't make sense. And if the concern is that the Canes' finances are bad this year, why wouldn't you take the opportunity to push those lower costs out over a few years instead of having a big chunk of change come due right now? Why would you pay $7M next year when you can pay $1.67M?

Here's the question on a buyout: You're basically saving $7M over the next three years (not exactly but close enough for rock n roll), or $2.33M / year for 3 years. So, can you get a guy who is worth more to the team than Semin for that money and that term? Unless you believe that Semin can come around and be productive and be consistently worth more than a $2.33M player that you can get somewhere else, the rational economic view is that you buy him out. (Yes, I know, we all know rationality doesn't always apply so lets not go there.)

My fear is that they work with the guy away from the team and then give him a shot in late-Feb or March to see if they're getting through to him and he plays decent enough to convince RF not to buy him out and then next year he's a shlub from the word 'go' again.
 
Question-- was their a time limit on compliance buy outs? As I recall, the Canes still have their two and if so, Semin's salary would come out of PKs pocket, but would be off the books-- correct?
 
SlapShots said:
Question-- was their a time limit on compliance buy outs? As I recall, the Canes still have their two and if so, Semin's salary would come out of PKs pocket, but would be off the books-- correct?
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There was a time limit on the no-repurcussion type of compliance buyout. But you can still do it ... with the full adjusted Cap hit.
 
Elsker said:
My first preferred option, until it is evident that it is no longer an option, is to fix the problem, as we have with several of the others.

A productive Semin, even if not a good fit for the team (or budget) for the remainder of the contract, is at least worth something.

In my fantasy world we carve out a role for him that features Skinner and him as wingers playing a somewhat different game than the other three lines, with a bit more east-west, give-and-go, give me some time-and-space, SCORE! to it.

It could happen.
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Semin the sniper when he shows up is one of the most lethal goal scorers in the league...Semin the enigma that we currently enjoy this year is a guy that almost every team would want no part of. So how do the Canes find a way to make this guy even worth half that salary on the ice moving forward?

The bigger question...if you swapped out one bad contract in Semin for another just for the sake of a change of scenery...who would that be? Clarkson? M.Richards?
 
Yep, compliance buyouts expired on 6/30/14. Teams had 2 years after the lockout to execute them.

With the news that Francis actively shopped Ward and found no takers, I'm a little surprised that he didn't choose that option.
 
CanadaCanes said:
The bigger question...if you swapped out one bad contract in Semin for another just for the sake of a change of scenery...who would that be? Clarkson? M.Richards?
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Virtually any player with either a shorter or cheaper deal. That's the real answer.
 
jeffbear said:
Virtually any player with either a shorter or cheaper deal. That's the real answer.
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Richards, Clarkson and Semin are all signed through the 17-18 season. Richards and Clarkson carry a $5.75 million cap hit. Richards' contract was front loaded though so he's only owed $16 million in actual salary the next 3 years. Clarkson's was back loaded so he's owed $19.5 million. So to swap like money, we'd have to eat $1.25 million of Semin's salary. Of course the Leafs could throw Morgan Rielly in as an offset... :wink

The problem with retained salary transactions, as we've discussed before, is that we only have 1 slot left until after next season when Ruutu and Harrison come off the books. That reduces RFs flexibility to take other dead weight off the roster.
 
bagopux said:
So you think it makes more sense to pay a guy $21M to sit in the press box rather than $14M to go away? That doesn't make sense. And if the concern is that the Canes' finances are bad this year, why wouldn't you take the opportunity to push those lower costs out over a few years instead of having a big chunk of change come due right now? Why would you pay $7M next year when you can pay $1.67M?

Here's the question on a buyout: You're basically saving $7M over the next three years (not exactly but close enough for rock n roll), or $2.33M / year for 3 years. So, can you get a guy who is worth more to the team than Semin for that money and that term? Unless you believe that Semin can come around and be productive and be consistently worth more than a $2.33M player that you can get somewhere else, the rational economic view is that you buy him out. (Yes, I know, we all know rationality doesn't always apply so lets not go there.)
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Ah, well that is different. I didn't realize that the rules around the term of payout were as such. I thought that you had to pay the lump sum of the buyout immediately.

T
 
canefanT said:
Ah, well that is different. I didn't realize that the rules around the term of payout were as such. I thought that you had to pay the lump sum of the buyout immediately.

T
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Just as a refresher, an ordinary course buyout for a player over, I think, 26 years old is that you pay 2/3 of the total remaining salary and spread that money out over twice the remaining term. So for Semin, instead of paying $7M / yr for 3 yrs, the Canes would pay $2.33M / yr for 6 yrs. The money counts against the cap. For younger players, the buyout is 1/3 instead of 2/3.
 
SlapShots said:
Thanks, AT and JB-- i couldn't remember.

Here's yet another article column about Semin. This one from TSN's Travis Yost:

http://www.tsn.ca/a-deeper-look-at-a-slumping-alexander-semin-1.194712
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Thanks Mr. Yost. Who knows? I'm quietly hoping that Semin does get out of this funk and gives us some more return. Or maybe another team looking for some scoring depth could take a chance on him....

What if a contender, looking for depth at the deadline came calling? Yeah, not likely because he has that huge contract/term.
So what contender could use him, and also has a bad contract (not necessarily full stop equally bad)?
 
Still, its a last resort. But just the fact that its on the table barring any chance to motivate the guy, speaks volumes regarding the culture change we're seeing.
 
JamesNorthern said:
Thanks Mr. Yost. Who knows? I'm quietly hoping that Semin does get out of this funk and gives us some more return.
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That's the best case scenario but honestly, I think it's a catch-22. He's not going to get out of his funk in the pressbox but Peters (quite rightly) won't play him until he shows up in practice.
 
His next chance in a game will only come as a last resort because of an injury or two.
 
andyt said:
That's the best case scenario but honestly, I think it's a catch-22. He's not going to get out of his funk in the pressbox but Peters (quite rightly) won't play him until he shows up in practice.
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So he is supposed to practicing but isn't because he's not happy that he's being a healthy scratch?
 
Semin wouldn't be the only bad contract hidden in the minors-- Souray, Redden, Commodore, and now, Mike Richards. The only difference between is that those players wanted to stay in the NHL and were able to contribute in the AHL. Souray was effectively chased from all thing EDM, but managed to get on with Dallas.

The question is how toxic is Semin to the Hurricanes-- does he get completely chased from the organization? Would he play for an AHL team? I guess RF and BP are not at the breaking point yet to be sending Semin down and certainly no team will claim him. Question is if he'd report and play or if he'd pull a Babchuk? Giving our offensive woes, it certainly would be nice to see some rehabilitation of both Skinner and Semin.
 
JamesNorthern said:
So he is supposed to practicing but isn't because he's not happy that he's being a healthy scratch?
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Exactly. The only way he's going to get back into the lineup, barring 2 injuries up front, is to show Peters that he cares in practice.
 
SlapShots said:
The question is how toxic is Semin to the Hurricanes-- does he get completely chased from the organization? Would he play for an AHL team?
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Would you even want him playing for the Checkers? Would he be too much of a negative influence on our developing players?
 
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