• Moderators, please send me a PM if you are unable to access mod permissions. Thanks, Habsy.

Around the League - Regular Season 2018-19

Rolex said:
Ovy also has 3 Hart awards, Crosby has 2.

Nobody will ever say Ovy is better than Crosby....but Ovy is truly one of the all time greats. Can’t deny his stats and awards.....
Click to expand...
I just cannot forgive him for spraying our flage boy in the playoffs in 2010.
 
Habsy said:
Gretzky was far smarter than Bossy on the ice and was a better skater.

Also, Lemieux and Bossy didn’t really play in the same era, Bossy was finishing up his career while Lemieux was beginning. Hockey changed drastically in the 90s.

What do the era adjusted stats show?

Don’t get me wrong here, I watched Bossy play and he was an incredible shooter but I just don’t think you can dismiss the dominance Ovi has shown.
Click to expand...

Here's what I posted a month ago.

When comparing players from different eras you have to use adjusted stats. Which is simply just goals relative to league scoring in any given year. Ovechkin literally passed Gretzky in adjusted goals yesterday. He's now 3rd all time with 761 G/A, Gretzky is 4th with 758. The top 2 are Howe with 925 and Jagr with 841. (those numbers include WHA games)

For a little more context... here's their G/A per game.

Ovechkin .736
Mario .673
Rocket .668
Bossy .613
Brett Hull .582
Crosby .561
Esposito .523
Teemu .511
Jagr .485
Gretzky .483
Robitaille .456
Iginla .454
Shanahan .441
Bobby Hull .440
Howe .423


Note: I can't find a "goals adjusted per game" list, so this is a sampling of the top overall goals adjust scorers (plus some other higher profile guys) then I divided by their games played. There might be some guys lower on the list who have a lot less games played and could be higher in the per game stat.

Ovie is in a class of his own.
 
Rolex said:
If we use that example, Gretzky, although a better skater than Bossy, would also have trouble in today’s game where everyone is allowed to touch you, and u can’t skate 2 seconds without getting hit. Just ask guys like Crosby, Ovy, Matthews, McDavid...

If that’s the case, the only 3 players that i think could’ve dominated in all era’s would be Howe-Believeau-Lemieux. They have the size, strength, IQ, speed....rare combination
Click to expand...

You could add Ovechkin and Crosby to that list. Both very strong, smart and fast... and Ovechkin is an absolute beast physically.

As for Gretzky's skating. He may not have looked ridiculously fast, and he had a bit of an awkward style... but he was very fast. I remember an interview with Paul Coffey in the 80s when they commented on him being the fastest skater in the league. He laughed and said he's the 3rd fastest skater on his team behind Glenn Anderson and Gretzky.
 
Gretzky wasn’t fast. What he was instead was brilliant, he anticipated the game seconds before everyone else and got to the puck or where he needed to be quickly because of that anticipation. Also, Coffey was being nice, he was far faster.
 
Rolex said:
I am using stats...9 straight 50 goal seasons, in the same era as Gretzky-Lemieux....even they couldn’t match that
Ovy has years where he had 32 and 38 goals....
Click to expand...

This is a great feat... and a large part of the reason Bossy is one of the top few goal scorers of all time. Ovechkin's couple down years contribute to him not being ahead by a wider margin.

It doesn’t matter if u throw the ajusted stats argument....it’s just another stat people use to “try” and compare different era.
Click to expand...

I’d rather say: he played at the same time as Gretzky and Lemieux at their absolute peak, and he still pumped out 9 straight 50 goal seasons, and would probably have had more if not for injuries that forced him to retire.
Click to expand...

Playing in the highest scoring era of all time contributed to Bossy's impressive numbers... how you can somehow use that to make it somehow sound like it should be more impressive is beyond me.


If u wanna use adjusted stats or whatever, let’s also assume if he had today’s trainers, nutritionists, equipments, medical staff, who knows how even better he would have been.
Click to expand...

Well, that's what adjusted stats do. They compare players to other players from the same era with the same benefits and the same downfalls. All the players Ovie is being compared to have the same benefits of those trainers, nutrition etc... which means they're playing against players with top trainers, nutrition etc... In the 80's Bossy had the benefit of playing in the highest scoring era ever... and while he didn't likely have the best trainers, nutrition etc... he was playing against guys that didn't have those things either.

That's why you have to look at their numbers relative to scoring at the time. Otherwise you're just taking guesses based on hunches.

Guys like Bossy had a much higher hockey IQ than Ovy.
Click to expand...

What is the basis for this? I mean what have you seen from Ovechkin that shows he has anything less than elite hockey IQ?

I am not bashing Ovy....i said i considered him and Bossy as the best at scoring goals.
Click to expand...

And I'm not bashing Bossy at all. He was phenomenal, and one of the top goal scorers in history.

Why do you take offense to that and absolutely want to have the last word that Ovy is the best ???
Click to expand...

I never took offense at all. How do I "want to have the last word...?" You reply, I reply, you reply... that's how conversations work... no?

I am not even an Ovie fan per se. For years I argued to diminish his accomplishments. I always knew he was great... but until the past couple years where I saw him continue to dominate and saw his adjusted stats I didn't realize how great he is.
 
Coffey sayijg he was 3rd fastest is typical humble hockey plqyer bullshit like Gretzky saying he wasn't the best ever. No one was a smoother nor better skater than Coffey on that team nor ever.
 
Interestingly enough, it seems like the single greatest goal scoring season using adjusted stats belongs to neither of the guys mentioned but instead has been realized by Brett Hull
 
GrandWazoo said:
Interestingly enough, it seems like the single greatest goal scoring season using adjusted stats belongs to neither of the guys mentioned but instead has been realized by Brett Hull
Click to expand...

That's not too surprising... Hull is 5th all time in adjusted goals per game.
 
Last edited:
Not surprising, I was just curious. Looks like Ovechkin had the second best one, then Lemieux, then Wayne. Powerhouses of the 80s are working against them in the adjusted department.
 
TheCountofMonteCristo said:
Coffey sayijg he was 3rd fastest is typical humble hockey plqyer bullshit like Gretzky saying he wasn't the best ever. No one was a smoother nor better skater than Coffey on that team nor ever.
Click to expand...

Orr is the best pure skater of all time . No disrespect to Wayne , he would of been crucified in Rocket Richard’s days where you had to fight your own battles . Like Bobby Hull mentions Pilote and Fantinato would of put him over over the boards when he tried to make those cute plays behind the net .

IMO Mario is the GOAT , the ultimate 5S player of all time . Size, strength , skill , scoring , and speed .

Unstoppable and he was a target for getting hit.
 
If you breathed on 66 after his cancer you were in the box. Only in the NHL could you have 1000 more than the next guy and have people argue you weren't the best ever.
 
Gretzky stayed healthier. Those two are comparable though, enough so to create arguments.
 
I laugh at people that says Wayne would have struggled in other era. He played in a pretty tough era where there was a lot of hitting, hooking and slashing and nobody was ever able to catch him. Too smart and agile, always three steps ahead of everyone. And for all his greatness, Mario floated a lot. But with the puck on his stick, he was terrorizing everyone.
 
GrandWazoo said:
I laugh at people that says Wayne would have struggled in other era. He played in a pretty tough era where there was a lot of hitting, hooking and slashing and nobody was ever able to catch him. Too smart and agile, always three steps ahead of everyone. And for all his greatness, Mario floated a lot. But with the puck on his stick, he was terrorizing everyone.
Click to expand...

Like Chelios said in those tournaments . I could of nailed him all I wanted .... but wanted to extend my career .

He is the only player that went through the playoffs untouched , he easily could of been nailed if players wanted to .

Kariya and other got crucified after scoring goals with cheap shots and few were as elusive as he was .

It was a written rule ...you don't touch him
 
GEEMAN said:
Like Chelios said in those tournaments . I could of nailed him all I wanted .... but wanted to extend my career .

He is the only player that went through the playoffs untouched , he easily could of been nailed if players wanted to .

Kariya and other got crucified after scoring goals with cheap shots and few were as elusive as he was .

It was a written rule ...you don't touch him
Click to expand...
It's bullshit. That would have made him the only player in hockey history to have everybody else agreed to not touch him. Plus there is documented evidence of hits on Gretzky. https://youtu.be/rtjLMha0LJk
 
GEEMAN said:
We agree to disagree ....IMO in the Richard and Howe`s days Wayne would of gotten eaten alive

There was no respect for anyone back then and no body guard to protect him
Click to expand...

Different times but I think he would have been fine. For one thing, players were way smaller back then, Gretzky would have been one of the bigger dude, crazy to think Wayne is the same size as Howe, different build though. He would have been one of the fastest too. He would have adjusted. It's not like nobody ever tried to intimidate Wayne, which is the point I'm debating. He had to make it all the way being a target at every level. And if you think no coaches ever instructed their guys to try to plaster Gretzky then you're just naive, which I know you're not.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top