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GDT: Flames @ Canes 1/13 7:00

JR's no doubt busy today.
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This is the part that worries me the most...I'm not sure at all that JR realizes there are serious issues to be addressed. If he does realize this, I'm not confident he can (or will) make the right moves to fix them.

Bowman is still MIA at practice today...Dwyer is also not practicing. I'm assuming Bowman is sick since he has missed 2 practices in a row. As much as I rag on Dwyer, he's a very useful player to have at his salary level. But he doesn't belong on our 2nd line.

As for anyone coming up from the AHL...Boychuk and Sutter I believe cannot be recalled until Saturday if the Canes are going to make a move there. Any player going down except for Murphy and Lindholm would have to clear waivers. If they do decide to bring Boychuk back at some point, unless its as an emergency recall (which is difficult with us having 13 forwards on the roster now), he's only a 2 games played away from losing his exemption from waivers. So if Boychuk is the answer, the Canes are going to be committing to him in the NHL for the rest of the season or he's going to be riding the waiver train out of town again or need to be traded.

I do hope JR is planning on doing something before the weekend games. The Checkers play home games this Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, so they will be 'in town'.
 
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cmaleski2 said:
This is the part that worries me the most...I'm not sure at all that JR realizes there are serious issues to be addressed. If he does realize this, I'm not confident he can (or will) make the right moves to fix them.

Bowman is still MIA at practice today...Dwyer is also not practicing. I'm assuming Bowman is sick since he has missed 2 practices in a row. As much as I rag on Dwyer, he's a very useful player to have at his salary level. But he doesn't belong on our 2nd line.

As for anyone coming up from the AHL...Boychuk and Sutter I believe cannot be recalled until Saturday if the Canes are going to make a move there. Any player going down except for Murphy and Lindholm would have to clear waivers. If they do decide to bring Boychuk back at some point, unless its as an emergency recall (which is difficult with us having 13 forwards on the roster now), he's only a 2 games played away from losing his exemption from waivers. So if Boychuk is the answer, the Canes are going to be committing to him in the NHL for the rest of the season or he's going to be riding the waiver train out of town again or need to be traded.

I do hope JR is planning on doing something before the weekend games. The Checkers play home games this Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, so they will be 'in town'.
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Be nice if JR was able to land a true 3rd line center and power forward to round out J. Staal's line and.... that would lend to the other lines sorting themselves out proper.

I would be looking for a responsible two way veteran center (a la what Matt Cullen did for us)... preferably on the 'taller' side, and a power forward.

For the record, I know it was only one game, and one game vs a very uninspired T.O. team, but, I really liked what I saw with Boychuk, Malhotra and Sutter. That should be our fourth line.

Tlusty Staal Semin
Gerbe/Dwyer Staal ?
Skinner ? Lindholm
Boychuk Malhotra Sutter

That would be my forward lines
 
HockeyPat said:
I just can't boo them in person. It makes me feel like a spoiled child.

I can bitch with the best of them, but booing the team doesn't seem to be productive. I think a rather even toned conversation about the effort level and what it takes to keep people in the stands might work better. But who is going to initiate that conversation? I tell you, I'm really frustrated with this team right now and I'm a East Carolina Pirate for crying out loud!*


* East Carolina Pirate fans are used to roller coaster highs and lows. We endure as many frustrations as elations.
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I'm going to differ with you, HP. During the Montreal v Canes games on 12/31, Muller called a time out when the Canes were on a 5 on on 3 to set up a play. The Canes couldn't keep the puck in the offensive zone and they looked disjointed and undisciplined. Keystone cops looked better. The arena booooo'd loudly. I dont think Muller said anything in that lockerroom during the 2nd intermission that was new to those players. The booing was new, loud and in their barn. Those players were embarrased. As far as I am concerned, I attribute the public shaming/calling out as the real motivator for their come from behind win and the start of that win streak.

By the way, an ECU fan has nothing- nothing- on a life long Saints fan.
 
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I've always had a hard time with the booing too but i think that was due to the fact that i was attending college events, where they aren't getting paid..... as much :smilewinkgrin:
However when you're plunking down 5 to 6k per year to watch these millionaires play, i've seemed to found my "inner boo" ability recently.
 
I'd like to see Malhotra centering Skinner and Lindholm and not just for two shifts - give 'em enough time to get used to each other. Let Nash center the 4th. I don't think Skins was demoted, Muller was trying to get him more scoring opp. Also, Semin on JStaal's line or I have to wonder, if we're gona play two guys with 11 that are overslotted, why not Boychuk and Sutter? No ,they don't have a lot of skill but they are both tougher to play against than are Dwyer and Gerbe - more physical.
 
*AH* said:
I'd like to see Malhotra centering Skinner and Lindholm and not just for two shifts - give 'em enough time to get used to each other. Let Nash center the 4th. I don't think Skins was demoted, Muller was trying to get him more scoring opp. Also, Semin on JStaal's line or I have to wonder, if we're gona play two guys with 11 that are overslotted, why not Boychuk and Sutter? No ,they don't have a lot of skill but they are both tougher to play against than are Dwyer and Gerbe - more physical.
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J. Staal with Sutter is a waste of #11. Sutter is no better than a 4th liner. If you want to experiment, I'd put Semin and Boychuk there. I know it's a limited sample, but I feel like Boychuk finally gets it.
 
andyt said:
Everyone remembers that Staal played the first 2 games of the 5 game winning streak and played half of the 3rd of those games, right? And that he had 5 points in those first 2 games? To lay all of the blame for last night on him is beyond ludicrous. The team is averaging 2.34 goals per game, good for 24th in the league. Staal's 25 assists is tied for 23th in the league, despite the fact that nobody on the team not named Jeff Skinner is scoring goals. And Skinner hasn't played on his line all season. That's 11 more assists than any other forward and 8 more than anyone else on the team. Jordan Staal has been in the league for 8 seasons now. Have you seen any indication that he has the tools to be the #1 center? Until very recently, some on this board were questioning whether he was worth the money he was making.

Last night was total team suckage. Top to bottom. Did you see their 2nd goal? The forwards were crossing into the defensive zone as Monahan was shooting. That was Ruutu, Lindholm and Skinner. Want to blame Staal for that one too? You want to bag skate this team until CMac pukes? Fine with me. The effort last night was putrid. But to bench, or demote or trade E. Staal is incredibly short sighted, IMO.
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I'm glad you said this. Amen. I am as frustrated by last night's play as anyone, but to pin this poor team performance on Staal is ridiculous. Is he a big part of this team? You bet. But he was very good at the beginning of our short win streak and he's just returned from not playing. Let's see what happens over the next couple of games. I also don't agree that Staal is making everyone else a playmaker - that doesn't make sense. If anything, it's the opposite. Staal leads with assists this year and last year's excellent performance by Tlusty was a direct result of Staal's playmaking ability. Since he got here, Semin has seemed more concerned with making great setup passes than in scoring - and last night was no exception. We need him to be the sniper he naturally is, but that can't be pinned on Staal.
 
andyt said:
J. Staal with Sutter is a waste of #11. Sutter is no better than a 4th liner. If you want to experiment, I'd put Semin and Boychuk there. I know it's a limited sample, but I feel like Boychuk finally gets it.
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OK, sounds reasonable, lets' try that - almost anything at this point. You wanna call Muller...? LOL!!!
 
There's an asterisk on Jordan's "2nd line" in that whoever his wingers might be, they need to bring a strong two-way game since Jordan is going to be out there every chance we get against the opposition's top scoring threat and needs wingers that can also face down that level of offensive player.

So, like Brind'Amour's line from the Cup runs, Jordan's wingers have to play defense first and ideally also be a legit scoring threat.

As it is, Dwyer has a defensively responsible game (+5), has a moderate shooting percentage scoring success (6.1% with 82 shots to date), while Gerbe is equally responsible defensively (even +/-) and has only a marginally better scoring percentage (6.8% with 133 shots to date).

Jordan, by way of comparison, is also +5 and has a 10.2% shooting percentage with 98 shots to date. Good on that line to not be minus anywhere, even with such a tough defensive assignment.

But, point being, can't just put any wingers with Jordan. They do have to have D-game...and hopefully some amount of scoring expertise.

I wouldn't be confident that either of Boychuk or Sutter could handle that level of opposition, at least at this stage in their pro careers.
 
HurryCanes said:
I've always had a hard time with the booing too but i think that was due to the fact that i was attending college events, where they aren't getting paid..... as much :smilewinkgrin:
However when you're plunking down 5 to 6k per year to watch these millionaires play, i've seemed to found my "inner boo" ability recently.
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!!
That much? Wow. Can only imagine how much people pay for Habs season tickets.

But... even at 5 to 6 k a year, hell, get up, stand on your seats and BOO. Also consider many of these guys are making that much (or more) per game (or per shift!!!!!!)
 
ThinIce said:
I'm glad you said this. Amen. I am as frustrated by last night's play as anyone, but to pin this poor team performance on Staal is ridiculous. Is he a big part of this team? You bet. But he was very good at the beginning of our short win streak and he's just returned from not playing. Let's see what happens over the next couple of games. I also don't agree that Staal is making everyone else a playmaker - that doesn't make sense. If anything, it's the opposite. Staal leads with assists this year and last year's excellent performance by Tlusty was a direct result of Staal's playmaking ability. Since he got here, Semin has seemed more concerned with making great setup passes than in scoring - and last night was no exception. We need him to be the sniper he naturally is, but that can't be pinned on Staal.
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I won't and don't disagree. But he DOES shoulder part of the blame/accountability. To the tune of 8Million+
 
JamesNorthern said:
Also consider many of these guys are making that much (or more) per game (or per shift!!!!!!)
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Doing mental math like this is how I entertain myself during mind-numbing games like last night.

Just to pick on Eric, since it's so much fun to do so, here's how his $9.25M salary breaks down on a per shift basis.

Assuming a full 82-game schedule for him, which he's not going to make this season, but usually does, that salary works out to around $112,800 per game (!).

And, since he has averaged 26 shifts per game this season (source), that works out to around $4,340 per shift.

Think about that...$4K+ every single time he goes over the wall. You'd be right to expect something other than...lollygagging.
 
$9.25 million. Eric is getting paid $9.25 million this year.

The other forwards in the NHL $9 million club 2013-14 version?

Alex Ovechkin ($9 million)
Brad Richards ($9 million)
Sidney Crosby ($12 million)
Zac Parise ($12 million)

That's it folks. If you drop down below $9 million in salary and go all the way down to $7.5 million, you will see these forwards:

Steven Stamkos ($8 million)
Marian Hossa ($7.9 million)
Rick Nash ($7.8 million)
Mike Richards ($7.6 million)
Evgeni Malkin ($7.5 million)
Anze Kopitar ($7.5 million)
Marian Gaborik ($7.5 million)
Henrik Zetterberg ($7.5 million)

I'm sorry, but I will never feel bad criticizing Eric Staal's play considering how much he is paid relative to the other superstar forwards in this league. The bottom line is that Eric Staal is earning the 3rd highest salary in the NHL being paid to a forward this year, behind 2 players making $12 million per year.
Parise, who recently signed an insane front loaded contract is one of them...and come 2015-16 will be making less money than Eric Staal that season. The other (Crosby) is the best player in the world.

As much as I appreciate that Eric Staal is the best player on our team and has been for a long time, its pretty rare that you leave a game thinking 'Eric earned that $9.25 million salary tonight!' The salary numbers don't lie....Eric Staal is not even close to being the 3rd best forward in the NHL...yet he's being paid as such.

Things change next year...not including any insane deals that might be signed in the offseason...as stands right now. Eric's $9.25 million in 14-15 will fall to 8th highest salary for a forward.....Parise, Crosby, Kessel, Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Giroux, and Malkin will pass him. by 15-16, Staal's $9.5 million will have him tied for for 4th (Crosby, Ovechkin, Kessel ahead of him, Malkin with the same salary).

Being satisfied with Eric's 70 points a year is well and good, but we should expect more (and HE should expect more). I'm not sure there is really more for him to give though. Maybe the reality is that as he approaches 30 he is just your above average #1 center and no longer a superstar. Which makes him our best player, but leaves us overpaying him relative to the market. $9.25 million per year is a whole lot of money, even in today's NHL. That's Stamkos money. That's Malkin money.

Maybe Eric Staal has a moment here...back from injury, where he realizes that this team and their playoff hopes hinge on his success and drive to leave it all out there on the ice. If that happens, I think the entire team will feed off of that. If not, well, its shame that we are paying him so much for 70 points.
 
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cmaleski2 said:
$9.25 million. Eric is getting paid $9.25 million this year.

The other forwards in the NHL $9 million club 2013-14 version?

Alex Ovechkin ($9 million)
Brad Richards ($9 million)
Sidney Crosby ($12 million)
Zac Parise ($12 million)

That's it folks. If you drop down below $9 million in salary and go all the way down to $7.5 million, you will see these forwards:

Steven Stamkos ($8 million)
Marian Hossa ($7.9 million)
Rick Nash ($7.8 million)
Mike Richards ($7.6 million)
Evgeni Malkin ($7.5 million)
Anze Kopitar ($7.5 million)
Marian Gaborik ($7.5 million)
Henrik Zetterberg ($7.5 million)

I'm sorry, but I will never feel bad criticizing Eric Staal's play considering how much he is paid relative to the other superstar forwards in this league. The bottom line is that Eric Staal is earning the 3rd highest salary in the NHL being paid to a forward this year, behind 2 players making $12 million per year.
Parise, who recently signed an insane front loaded contract is one of them...and come 2015-16 will be making less money than Eric Staal that season. The other (Crosby) is the best player in the world.

As much as I appreciate that Eric Staal is the best player on our team and has been for a long time, its pretty rare that you leave a game thinking 'Eric earned that $9.25 million salary tonight!' The salary numbers don't lie....Eric Staal is not even close to being the 3rd best forward in the NHL...yet he's being paid as such.

Things change next year...not including any insane deals that might be signed in the offseason...as stands right now. Eric's $9.25 million in 14-15 will fall to 8th highest salary for a forward.....Parise, Crosby, Kessel, Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Giroux, and Malkin will pass him. by 15-16, Staal's $9.5 million will have him tied for for 4th (Crosby, Ovechkin, Kessel ahead of him, Malkin with the same salary).

Being satisfied with Eric's 70 points a year is well and good, but we should expect more (and HE should expect more). I'm not sure there is really more for him to give though. Maybe the reality is that as he approaches 30 he is just your above average #1 center and no longer a superstar. Which makes him our best player, but leaves us overpaying him relative to the market. $9.25 million per year is a whole lot of money, even in today's NHL. That's Stamkos money. That's Malkin money.

Maybe Eric Staal has a moment here...back from injury, where he realizes that this team and their playoff hopes hinge on his success and drive to leave it all out there on the ice. If that happens, I think the entire team will feed off of that. If not, well, its shame that we are paying him so much for 70 points.
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Amen, brother, amen.
 
cmaleski2 said:
Maybe Eric Staal has a moment here...back from injury, where he realizes that this team and their playoff hopes hinge on his success and drive to leave it all out there on the ice. If that happens, I think the entire team will feed off of that. If not, well, its shame that we are paying him so much for 70 points.
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I was a major defender of Eric throughout his early 20's, saying I expected him to be 25 or maybe even 26 before he clicked on and began to be all he could be. That he would be a late-bloomer, but grow into his role in his late 20's.

Well, that didn't really happen and I'm now more impatiently waiting for it to do so. Because I do still believe that it can. Not will...can.

There's still time for that metamorphosis to occur and, despite my ragging on him and doubting that any human being playing a sport needs multi-multi-millions per year to do so, the very best thing for the team and for my fandom would be for him to do so.

Heck, we're contractually paying him for the next few years, so the best outcome of all would be for him to actually be all that he can be during those years.

And I don't even mean putting on a cape and carrying this team. I actually think that's a harmful role for all parties and the team in general. I just mean be one bad-assed handful of Canadian farm boy center each and every night you collect that $100K paycheck.

Be that, Eric, and I will be your fan, not just for the laundry you're wearing. It's not too late.
 
cmaleski2 said:
$9.25 million. Eric is getting paid $9.25 million this year.

The other forwards in the NHL $9 million club 2013-14 version?

Alex Ovechkin ($9 million)
Brad Richards ($9 million)
Sidney Crosby ($12 million)
Zac Parise ($12 million)

That's it folks. If you drop down below $9 million in salary and go all the way down to $7.5 million, you will see these forwards:

Steven Stamkos ($8 million)
Marian Hossa ($7.9 million)
Rick Nash ($7.8 million)
Mike Richards ($7.6 million)
Evgeni Malkin ($7.5 million)
Anze Kopitar ($7.5 million)
Marian Gaborik ($7.5 million)
Henrik Zetterberg ($7.5 million)

I'm sorry, but I will never feel bad criticizing Eric Staal's play considering how much he is paid relative to the other superstar forwards in this league. The bottom line is that Eric Staal is earning the 3rd highest salary in the NHL being paid to a forward this year, behind 2 players making $12 million per year.
Parise, who recently signed an insane front loaded contract is one of them...and come 2015-16 will be making less money than Eric Staal that season. The other (Crosby) is the best player in the world.

As much as I appreciate that Eric Staal is the best player on our team and has been for a long time, its pretty rare that you leave a game thinking 'Eric earned that $9.25 million salary tonight!' The salary numbers don't lie....Eric Staal is not even close to being the 3rd best forward in the NHL...yet he's being paid as such.

Things change next year...not including any insane deals that might be signed in the offseason...as stands right now. Eric's $9.25 million in 14-15 will fall to 8th highest salary for a forward.....Parise, Crosby, Kessel, Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Giroux, and Malkin will pass him. by 15-16, Staal's $9.5 million will have him tied for for 4th (Crosby, Ovechkin, Kessel ahead of him, Malkin with the same salary).

Being satisfied with Eric's 70 points a year is well and good, but we should expect more (and HE should expect more). I'm not sure there is really more for him to give though. Maybe the reality is that as he approaches 30 he is just your above average #1 center and no longer a superstar. Which makes him our best player, but leaves us overpaying him relative to the market. $9.25 million per year is a whole lot of money, even in today's NHL. That's Stamkos money. That's Malkin money.

Maybe Eric Staal has a moment here...back from injury, where he realizes that this team and their playoff hopes hinge on his success and drive to leave it all out there on the ice. If that happens, I think the entire team will feed off of that. If not, well, its shame that we are paying him so much for 70 points.
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Perfect. Thank you!

Like it or not Eric Staal is the undisputed leader of this team and Captain during the period we have missed the playoffs going on 7 of 8 years. During this period the Canes have changed head coaches multiple times, spent money for top tier talent to play with him (Semin), traded for his brother, and swapped out the entire defense. The only constants in the organization during this period are the ownership, Rutherford, Cam Ward, and Eric Staal. Another coaching change without other changes to the equation does not change anything. One of the 4 constants has to change for the results to be any different, and I don't think Pete is selling the team anytime soon. The organization needs a fundamental shake up of the equation.
 
The other interesting thing about Staal. It is reported he is bitter about the Olympics and not making Team Canada -

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/01/09/hurricanes-eric-staal-bitter-about-team-canada-olympic-snub

Funny thing is by most accounts he was not even in the discussion of the final couple of players left off the Canadian Olympic team. Those were Giroux, Couture, Thornton, St. Louis, and Neal. Eric needs a bit of a wake up call about his level of commitment and play. He has been coasting for years other than short bursts of dominant play sprinkled in every few months or weeks.

I really don't hate Staal, it just frustrates me to see someone with such given talent and ability not apply themselves 100%. I wish Eric would "get it" someday because the Canes could really use a motivated Staal. At the end of the day maybe the Olympic snub, as he see it, will be that moment.
 
CarolinaPen said:
Perfect. Thank you!

Like it or not Eric Staal is the undisputed leader of this team and Captain during the period we have missed the playoffs going on 7 of 8 years. During this period the Canes have changed head coaches multiple times, spent money for top tier talent to play with him (Semin), traded for his brother, and swapped out the entire defense. The only constants in the organization during this period are the ownership, Rutherford, Cam Ward, and Eric Staal. Another coaching change without other changes to the equation does not change anything. One of the 4 constants has to change for the results to be any different, and I don't think Pete is selling the team anytime soon. The organization needs a fundamental shake up of the equation.
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Between CMal's analysis and CP's post above there is nothing better out there on E.Staal...the facts don't lie...most nights he comes no where close to earning that salary...period. He should never get a free pass at that salary. The trailers are hitched to #12 as long as JR is in charge...but once the old man retires or is removed from his GM post, my money says the next GM won't be giving Eric the benefit of the doubt.
 
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