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Habs Offer Sheet for Aho

Habsy said:
You know what occurred to me? Bergevin did Carolina another favor. Because it was an offer sheet there are no clauses. He doesn’t have a no trade or no movement clause. Not that they’d want to but if something happened they could move him easily.
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I mean ... thanks?

And I've said this before, but there is a decent window in this contract to move him the summer before the last year. At that point his remaining total compensation would only be $6 million even though the cap hit is at $8.45 mil. Surely you could con a great return out of one of the title pretenders at that point. They'd get a really good player for a discount for a year and a whole year to clean up their cap space to negotiate a new deal.

Not saying that's what's going to happen. But the opportunity will likely be there.
 
You are going to test my CBA/rules knowledge here a bit, but I'm pretty darn sure that its against the rules to give players NTCs and NMCs for seasons that the player would be an RFA under the CBA rules at the point in the time a contract is signed. For Aho, that covers the first 4 seasons of the 5 year deal he just signed (the only UFA season covered in that 5 year deal is the last one). The offer sheet itself comes with a 1st year NTC so that sort of offsets that.

I believe some pundit made that point recently about the NMC/NTCs, but I will use Connor McDavid and Auston Matthews' contracts as my confirmation of that. So Aho COULD have received a NMC that last year of the deal if it wasn't via an offer sheet, but not for any other year of the deal. But he has a NTC for the first year because it was an offer sheet.

So sort of Habsy, but not really.

---edit--- Actually let's make this official:

CBA 11.8.a:

11.8 Individually Negotiated Limitations on Player Movement.
(a) The SPC of any Player who is a Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agent under Article
10.1(a) may contain a no-Trade or a no-move clause. SPCs containing a no-Trade or a no-move
clause may be entered into prior to the time that the Player is a Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agent
so long as the SPC containing the no-Trade or no-move clause extends through and does not
become effective until the time that the Player qualifies for Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agency.
If the Player is Traded or claimed on Waivers prior to the no-Trade or no-move clause taking
effect, the clause does not bind the acquiring Club. An acquiring Club may agree to continue to
be bound by the no-Trade or no-move clause, which agreement shall be evidenced in writing to
the Player, Central Registry and the NHLPA, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereof.
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I copied that from the NHLPA.com version of the CBA. Note also that if you trade or waive a player before his NTC or NMC kicks in, the acquiring team does NOT have to honor the eventual NTC or NMC.

So yeah, during your RFA years, thou shalt not have a NMC or NTC per the CBA.
 
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jeffbear said:
In what specific way?
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Maybe its that old expression, where there is smoke there is fire. The contract was not 1-2-3, easy peasy, and our hand was forced by this move. Even though that ended up being affordable, doesn't change that until this RFA offer, we were apparently not getting things done with Aho.

I find all of that perplexing. So the amount that we are matching MUST still be higher than our highest offer we had made him before this RFA offer sheet. Or something else was different, maybe the term.

So, money wise, the two didn't see eye to eye. Aho proved that he was worth it, by showing that another team was ready to pay what he was asking. idk. We'll see how things progress over the season, but I find this is also a distraction. Team still has TONS of holes to deal with, IMO we've regressed in depth from last season, at least on paper. Sure the offseason is long, but I'm not seeing any improvements yet. And this story is sad. Frankly, can't help but feel Aho decieved us. I get the analogy of leverage an offer to get a better pay increase, but sports contracts aren't your garden varity work thing. Whatever.

Part of me wondered if the 3 1st rounders would have been a nice consellation. Problem is, with Aho, you know the Habs would do better. Any team would. Ok, need to forget this happened. And yeah, if we don't have much cap space, please trade one of your d-men and get some offense help.
 
James ... I don't see the regression of the roster that you see, but maybe that's matter of what you value versus what I value. But on Aho I think you're well off base to be worried about the money. That was NEVER the issue between the two parties. The issue was the length of the contract and the club and agent only gave themselves a couple of weeks to even try to work anything out ... apparently talking twice in that time. That's a problem in and of itself, but not the one you're describing. Don't fall into the BS narrative about the Canes lowballing Aho that Habs fans are pushing to fit their own narrative. Carolina would have been thrilled to end up at $8.5 million ... they just wanted longer term.
 
JamesNorthern said:
Maybe its that old expression, where there is smoke there is fire. The contract was not 1-2-3, easy peasy, and our hand was forced by this move. Even though that ended up being affordable, doesn't change that until this RFA offer, we were apparently not getting things done with Aho.

I find all of that perplexing. So the amount that we are matching MUST still be higher than our highest offer we had made him before this RFA offer sheet. Or something else was different, maybe the term.

So, money wise, the two didn't see eye to eye. Aho proved that he was worth it, by showing that another team was ready to pay what he was asking. idk. We'll see how things progress over the season, but I find this is also a distraction. Team still has TONS of holes to deal with, IMO we've regressed in depth from last season, at least on paper. Sure the offseason is long, but I'm not seeing any improvements yet. And this story is sad. Frankly, can't help but feel Aho decieved us. I get the analogy of leverage an offer to get a better pay increase, but sports contracts aren't your garden varity work thing. Whatever.

Part of me wondered if the 3 1st rounders would have been a nice consellation. Problem is, with Aho, you know the Habs would do better. Any team would. Ok, need to forget this happened. And yeah, if we don't have much cap space, please trade one of your d-men and get some offense help.
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First off, the compensation for the Canes to not match the Montreal offer sheet was NOT three first rounders, it was one first, a second and a third round pick, that's it, that's chump change for your franchise player!

And second, I just dont see your logic James behind TONS of holes to fill??? This team replaced a veteran backup goalie with another veteran backup goalie, they acquired a third line center in Huala to shore up the depth that scored 29 goals two seasons ago, they likely place a great offensive star in Necas on the wing and have decided to go with the kids in Fleury/Bean over the veteran de Haan who was out anyhow until December with a rebuilt shoulder. It's still very likely that Williams returns for one more season as well to shore up the forward mix. I just think it looks a lot like the same team that was in the Final Four in May to me, maybe even a tad better.
 
Honestly ... I think the Canes are set on D and look at least as good as previous up front ... maybe even a little better if Williams is back. I'm not seeing a cause for concern. They did peel off a layer of fairly experienced depth in the AHL callup/4th line/Extras group with McKegg, Roy, Brown, Poturalski and Saarela leaving but other than Kegger those guys played a handful of games last season, were unlikely to do much in the coming season and you've got plenty of other options. I honestly don't think adding Necas and Huala to the mix can be spun as a step backwards ... even by someone as notoriously pessimistic as me.
 
The issue is ALWAYS other teams improving. We'll see what things look like when camps open.
 
CanadaCanes said:
I look at what Auston Matthews did in his negotiating with Toronto as a similar path to becoming a UFA the fastest. He signed the 5 year term taking him to unrestricted free agency sooner where he can choose wherever he wants to go at whatever price someone wants to pay him at the tender age of 26, which might even include the desert of Arizona if they ever get a new rink in let's say 4 to 5 years! The deal he signed is also heavily front loaded.

Aho now gets the shortest path to unrestricted free agency, and for all these young stars, that seems pretty important to them.
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Same agency for both Matthews and Aho with Gerry Johannson (CEO) involved with both.

For those of you with subscriptions to The Athletic, here's an eye-opening article from February wherein Johannson pretty much says it's a new day for the top RFA's that will lead to earlier UFA status and a third contract when in their prime:

How the Matthews deal shifts the market for the next group of star RFAs
 
we were apparently not getting things done with Aho.
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The problems were never with AHO. And after looking at some of Gerry Johannson's work and pronunciamentos, it seems likely that he has set out to set the NHL afire or at least put the heat to the teams his clients play for. On the surface anyway he plays by the rules if not by the norms. I'd bet he strongly influences clients to his way of thinking and acting. It is apparent that he did not write nor strongly influence the terms and wording of the Habs offer to Sebass, if he had it would have been far stronger. Maybe MB wasn't all that comfortable in straying far from the 'norms'.
 
Meh. It doesn’t really matter if the agent is a jerk. Most of them are to one degree or another and Johansson is not leading any kind of revolution anytime soon. Frankly, it disappoints me to see Carolina be so glib about this mess that they clearly participated in. Maybe tamp down the dunking on Montreal long enough to do at least a little self reflection. Or pretend to. Not everybody is so easily distracted.
 
My .02 cents. I think the whole thing was interesting. You could tell from Aho's past comments he wanted what he thought was top dollar. Why not take the money up front if you can get it, and maybe he was ready to get it over with and enjoy his summer. I find it perplexing that the Canadiens even did this without offering something that was more than expected. The whole thing has a fog around it which seems to be clearing now that it is over. Still, what a dumb move by Montreal. All I can say is when time is up, Aho will be going top dollar again, and is not afraid to test the CBA limits. Who knows where he will end up. Baby steps.
 
I think the offer sheet was nice bit of wake up call for the Canes organization-- a bit of baptism by fire. No one comes out smelling like a rose with this offer sheet move-- not MTL, not CAR, not the agent and not the player. All have a bit o'stink on 'em. So, while each teams tries to sell their side, at end of the day, it is what it is and we have improved in the center spot-- first time in a long time-- Aho, Staal, Haula and Walmark.

Montreal in the interim has done very little to enhance their roster since free agency. Cleared $15 million in cap space, lost out on Duchene, lost out on Aho and signed Keith Kincaid and a depth d-man in Ben Chiarot.
 
Habsy said:
The issue is other teams improving. Florida got a lot better already.
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Panthers had the 9th best goals for and 4th worst goals against. They missed the playoffs by 12 points. Is Bob 6 wins better than Luongo/Reimer? Uh, yes.
 
It's early days. Montreal is a well balanced team that needed help on D and a decent backup keeper. Not sure Chiarot is what I'd call help on D, but he's an upgrade over Benn (who was rapidly turning immobile) and Kincaid is a quality backup. Expensive upgrades for what they are because UFA, but what do I care? Not adding a first line center or someone who can do an impression of a first line center ... more accurate description of both Aho and Duchene although at least Aho can drive a line ... is their issue. Again, it's early days and cap space is king. They still have enough room to make a move, it's just going to have to be more complicated than their first two attempts.

As for the wake up call ... I'll believe it when I see it. I know they've put the hammer down hard on the PR spin in this whole mess, and they did end up with their franchise player on a relatively long term deal for reasonable money. But having your franchise player sign an offer sheet agreeing to play somewhere else on freaking day one of the period when he could do so? Yeah. No spin erases that. You either negotiate like blind elephants or you got ambushed ... and either way it means you suck at negotiating. On the upside, I've been waiting for Dundon to actually spend some of his own money on talent and he just did that rather emphatically. Between paying $3 mil for that first round pick and spending $20 some odd million out of pocket for Aho's deal, Dundon finally has some serious skin in the game past whatever he put in to buy the club in the first place.

The time to judge whether they learned anything meaningful out of this won't come for two years ... when they have to get Svech signed to a big boy contract.
 
andyt said:
Panthers had the 9th best goals for and 4th worst goals against. They missed the playoffs by 12 points. Is Bob 6 wins better than Luongo/Reimer? Uh, yes.
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Most expanded stats sites show Bob as +3 to 4 wins above replacement. Since that judges based on league average numbers, maybe adjust that by a game to account for being slightly below league average last season. Still, that only gets you close to where you need to be. Is he still a good goalie signing for Florida, ignoring the cost? Absolutely. You just need to do more than just add Bob if you're going to be a playoff team, especially in the Metro where the soft teams at the bottom just got a LOT better.
 
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Agree and comparing the supporting cast each had last year likely contributed as well.
jeffbear said:
Most expanded stats sites show Bob as +3 to 4 wins above replacement. Since that judges based on league average numbers, maybe adjust that by a game to account for being slightly below league average last season. Still, that only gets you close to where you need to be. Is he still a good goalie signing for Florida, ignoring the cost? Absolutely. You just need to do more than just add Bob if you're going to be a playoff team, especially in the Metro where the soft teams at the bottom just got a LOT better.
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SlapShots said:
I think the offer sheet was nice bit of wake up call for the Canes organization-- a bit of baptism by fire. No one comes out smelling like a rose with this offer sheet move-- not MTL, not CAR, not the agent and not the player. All have a bit o'stink on 'em. So, while each teams tries to sell their side, at end of the day, it is what it is and we have improved in the center spot-- first time in a long time-- Aho, Staal, Haula and Walmark.

Montreal in the interim has done very little to enhance their roster since free agency. Cleared $15 million in cap space, lost out on Duchene, lost out on Aho and signed Keith Kincaid and a depth d-man in Ben Chiarot.
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By design. One day people will get this concept. Molson hasn't spent to the cap in 3 seasons and soon to be 4. Every year they pull some sort of "we tried to improve" BS to deflect from that fact. Not working on me.
 
And look ... I like Florida. I like how they played hard regardless of situation last year, and they've got some danger in the lineup. They aren't really built for speed though, and that hurts them in the East ... and that's only going to get worse with the moves that the Rangers and Devils have made. And sorry I keep putting Florida in our division in these comments. Force of habit.
 
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