Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
There was no way that was happening. Fuck bullies like Burke. That's my typical response.
Law question
- Thread starter Kritter
- Start date
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Verbal agreements will only get you so far. Most agreements have a term, and if they don’t, then maybe interpreted to be subject to termination by either party at any time. Or if you can make a credible case that there was some understood term based on the facts and circumstances, but it generally can’t be perpetual if not so stated in writing.
You’ll be wading into the waters of equitable remedies on this one. For example, if you can show that you reasonably relied on certain representations or courses of conduct and have spent money on the understanding that the business would continue. But again, for some term, not typically forever. In this case, maybe to get you through the next season, or if you’ve say, hired employees and given them term and will owe them money if these guys cut things off abruptly, then for some reasonable term corresponding to the duration of their engagement.
But if there’s nothing in writing, you face an uphill battle, and the weight of rapidly piling legal bills saddled to you won’t make that uphill journey an enjoyable one. And if in Canada, and you lose, you may find yourself liable for their legal bills too.
That said, the very threat of litigation in the context of working out some reasonable compromise could be effective. At least to get them responsive again and see how shaken they may or may not be.
You’ll be wading into the waters of equitable remedies on this one. For example, if you can show that you reasonably relied on certain representations or courses of conduct and have spent money on the understanding that the business would continue. But again, for some term, not typically forever. In this case, maybe to get you through the next season, or if you’ve say, hired employees and given them term and will owe them money if these guys cut things off abruptly, then for some reasonable term corresponding to the duration of their engagement.
But if there’s nothing in writing, you face an uphill battle, and the weight of rapidly piling legal bills saddled to you won’t make that uphill journey an enjoyable one. And if in Canada, and you lose, you may find yourself liable for their legal bills too.
That said, the very threat of litigation in the context of working out some reasonable compromise could be effective. At least to get them responsive again and see how shaken they may or may not be.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Just a super, duper dark sense of humour.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Probably because UANAL.
UWHabs
Well-known member
The rest of us don't know the industry. If it's as clear as you say, then it sounds like it's at least worth a consult with a lawyer. Worst case maybe you pay them a little money for them to write a fancy email to the client.
LoF does bring up a good point, if you have had an understanding and acted on it, and get cut off, that seems like it could trigger something. Or if they led you on in talks up to a point (including email, which is non-verbal), then you'd obviously have a stronger case. Like if they asked you for estimates, and they say "yeah, I would guess it would be similar to last year, let me double check" but then ghost you after that, that would be a much stronger statement than if they never really even said anything future-looking.
Lawyers are not expensive to talk to the first time. They're expensive after that, though. Although also always keep in mind that once you start going down the legal rabbit hole for a deal, then usually that client is more than gone. It might be shitty, but you have to think about how much of that one season's contract gets eaten up by legal fees. Even if you have a strong case, sadly often might not even be worth chasing. Of course, it very much might be if the case should be clear-cut. IANAL
Kritter
Well-known member
Thank you for your reply LOF.
I am 100% certain that the “agreement” we had can be proven to exist. Without a doubt.
I have markets starting next weekend.. I am committed to spending over $5k to attend these markets with the intention of having this line to sell. I have apts with customers who are expecting to see this line to place orders.
I have no written notification from them that our relationship has ended.
this kind of behaviour would be a major black eye for the company in this territory. No sales rep in their right minds would start a relationship with them if they end our relationship this way.. if they had sent me an email or letter last season with a one season notice then there is no issue.
don’t know if any of that even matters.
Kritter
Well-known member
They sent me an email last week with an early version of the spring PDF where they are asking me for my opinion of prints.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
If you spend the money to go while they’re ghosting you, I don’t think you should reasonably expect to recoup. They’ll just say they’d been ignoring you, so there’s no good rationale for coming out of pocket to attend and expect to still be representing them.
If, however, you send them an email saying, hey, I’m spending money to attend and expect that I’m representing you there unless you email me back to inform me otherwise - then you’d have some grounds for a claim if they still ignore you rather than tell you it’s over. That said, they could still argue that you should have interpreted their silence as a clear indication that you don’t rep them and shouldn’t attend with the expectation that you do. Sending them that email may tee them up to put that final nail in the coffin, but it should at least coax a reply, and if in the negative, save you a trip and some dough. Personally, if they ignore you, I’d recommend that you not come out of pocket and just close the book on the relationship, unfortunately.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Some valuable info that would’ve been helpful to know earlier! Maybe they’re just slow in getting back.
I’d say send them that email I just mentioned and don’t go forward if they still ignore.
thehabhater
Some call me Tim
Do they have credit terms with you? Are they current?
BG
Well-known member
I guess one thing to consider, is if the verbal agreement was enforceable - would you reasonably expect said company to consider legal action if you decided not to buy from them in a given season?
I also question the idea of vaguely threatening them, as it could potentially sour the relationship entirely going forward.
You've likely tried to move this up their chain of management - and that would be where I think you can express your concerns about their service-level.
I also question the idea of vaguely threatening them, as it could potentially sour the relationship entirely going forward.
You've likely tried to move this up their chain of management - and that would be where I think you can express your concerns about their service-level.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
Had you done business with these folks in the past on the same unwritten terms? Think that is a relevant fact in all this
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou
I will get banned again soon, worry not.
I'm no lawyer but there's an old saying about how verbal contracts aren't worth the paper on which they are not printed.
thehabhater
Some call me Tim
Go see them and expense a lunch. If you have a new product or service to offer, even better.
SundinsTooth
Leafs Moderator
Kritter
Well-known member
Yup
Twice a year for the last 6-7 years.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
In that case, may be worth a chat with a lawyer who knows contract law. And obviously only proceed if its worth totally burning that bridge.