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**Leafs trade Josh Leivo to Canucks for Michael Carcone**

our fourth line wingers could be top liners for other teams. heh.

more realistically Leivo will be a 2nd liner, but still. Van has some legit offensive talent to play him with too. don't know their lines but I think Pettersson and Boeser play together, throw Leivo with Horvat?
 
Yeah, this is not the end of the world by any stretch, but it's not a good sign. We have a player who ticks all the right analytic boxes that you want out of a cheap depth player. He produces well offensively (despite being stuck on the 4th line), drives possession, creates chances at a high level (again, despite being stuck with 4th line talent) and even plays a "heavy" game along the boards. Does this will being incredibly cheap. But because Saskatchewan McOldSchool doesn't like him, we puke him out the door for next to nothing, and will continue to employ coach favourites who have been given every opportunity in the world, and produced poor results despite those opportunities.

So yeah, not the end of the world, but Dubas "losing" this fight with his coach concerns me. If Leivo gets a legit shot in Vancouver, he'll probably cement himself as a good middle 6 winger.
 
Dubas wouldn't have moved Leivo for nothing if he thought he was good.

And also lets not ignore that the two players that made Leivo expendable were Johnsson and Ennis, not Babs' gud pros.
 
Wayward DP said:
our fourth line wingers could be top liners for other teams. heh.

more realistically Leivo will be a 2nd liner, but still. Van has some legit offensive talent to play him with too. don't know their lines but I think Pettersson and Boeser play together, throw Leivo with Horvat?
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this 4th line winger could be a top liner for our team, too.
 
leafman101 said:
Dubas wouldn't have moved Leivo for nothing if he thought he was good.

And also lets not ignore that the two players that made Leivo expendable were Johnsson and Ennis, not Babs' gud pros.
Click to expand...

Dubas apparently promised him he would be moved if he wasn't in the lineup going forward, and that's Babcock's decision. Dubas just kept his word. I don't think this is a statement at all about what Dubas thinks of him. This is the product of what Babcock thinks of him.

Which apparently means that Babcock chose

Ennis: -2.36 cfRel, -2.07 xGFrel

over Leivo: 1.58 cfRel, 7.02 xGFrel

in the same ****ing 5 on 5 usage.
 
Leivo Career: 84gms, 10:45, 14gls, 28pts


So he got basically one full season of games, with 4th line usage and 4th line linemates, and was a 15gl/30pt type guy in those minutes, while being a great possession player the whole time.
 
I think the contract Leivo got last year speaks more to what Doobs thinks of him than the trade.

But yeah, either way. Will be sad to see Leivo get his chance elsewhere.

At the end of the day, he was our 7-9th winger on the depth charts, but I think given the opportunity he may have passed a number of the wingers ahead of him (Brown, Hyman, Ennis, hell even Johnsson).
 
zeke said:
Leivo Career: 84gms, 10:45, 14gls, 28pts


So he got basically one full season of games, with 4th line usage and 4th line linemates, and was a 15gl/30pt type guy in those minutes, while being a great possession player the whole time.
Click to expand...

could be our Marchessault
 
MindzEye said:
Dubas apparently promised him he would be moved if he wasn't in the lineup going forward, and that's Babcock's decision. Dubas just kept his word. I don't think this is a statement at all about what Dubas thinks of him. This is the product of what Babcock thinks of him.

Which apparently means that Babcock chose

Ennis: -2.36 cfRel, -2.07 xGFrel

over Leivo: 1.58 cfRel, 7.02 xGFrel

in the same ****ing 5 on 5 usage.
Click to expand...

Its both. If Dubas loved the guy he wouldn't have dumped him for nothing. Thats just common sense.

And their numbers are identical in the same usage. Ennis has some real shitty numbers from his top line time.
 
Not a cup losing decision but yeah.. terrible sign moving forward. You win this battle, Babs but you better shut the **** up when dubas chooses to move brownie or Zaitsev.
 
Wayward DP said:
I think the contract Leivo got last year speaks more to what Doobs thinks of him than the trade.

But yeah, either way. Will be sad to see Leivo get his chance elsewhere.

At the end of the day, he was our 7-9th winger on the depth charts, but I think given the opportunity he may have passed a number of the wingers ahead of him (Brown, Hyman, Ennis, hell even Johnsson).
Click to expand...

Love Johnsson, but Leivo has been better than Johnsson has been this season as well. Johnsson has been better lately, but he was grim for the first 15+ games of the season.
 
Good grab by Vancouver.

I would much prefer a draft pick over an undrafted AHLer. Leivo is obviously an NHL-capable forward. Damn Babcock for not giving him a good opportunity and tanking his value.
 
If Leivo is such a gem, some other team would’ve snatched him from us long ago with a much better offer.

Is Benning another visionary-level mind like Burke? Doubt it.
 
Its both. If Dubas loved the guy he wouldn't have dumped him for nothing. Thats just common sense.
Click to expand...

Unless Dubas was willing to go to battle with his coach over this (which I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to....I dig Leivo, but he's a bad hill to die on), then I disagree. He was just keeping his word. He moved a player that he made a promise to, for what he could get when the promise came due.
 
If I'm building a team, leivos are the guys I want in my bottom six. Even if you don't produce offensively (which he does at a decent rate), just shoot more often than you get shot on and I'm happy. Seems like Babs prefers the browns of the world. It's unfortunate really.
 
MindzEye said:
Unless Dubas was willing to go to battle with his coach over this (which I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to....I dig Leivo, but he's a bad hill to die on), then I disagree. He was just keeping his word. He moved a player that he made a promise to, for what he could get when the promise came due.
Click to expand...

If this is pre-payment to Babs for trading his boy toy Zaitsev, then this is kind of half worth it.

Although the GM should just do what he thinks is right at the end of the day and not give into some morons demands. Ah well.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
If Leivo is such a gem, some other team would’ve snatched him from us long ago with a much better offer.
Click to expand...

Why would anyone make a "much better offer"? The guy wasn't given a real opportunity in Toronto. Why would you pay up for a guy that you'll probably be able to get for cheap sooner or later?



Is Benning another visionary-level mind like Burke? Doubt it.
Click to expand...

He's putting together a pretty solid collection of young talent over there...might want to get your jokes in now while their shelf life is good.

Regardless, this is a good move for them. They gave up a 22 yr old undrafted AHL'er who looks like he has no future, for a guy who in 4th line usage has produced like a 3rd liner, and brings excellent possession statistics with him. You don't play 80+ NHL games on a mediocre possession team and do that accidentally.
 
I'll say this about Dubas on this move:

1. Good on him honouring his word to Leivo.

2. Bad on him for not standing up to Babcock.

Now, granted if they kept him Babs would have continued to waste his value. So, The Doob had no choice but to move him, I guess.
 
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