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OT: American Politics

leaffan2005 said:
Haha, I knew you would respond with nonsense like this.

What an utter fool you are.
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I call you out for putting words in my mouth and I'm the fool?

I will refrain from eviscerating you because I was taught to support the mentally challenged, not mock them.
 
Habsy said:
Guns are the ultimate symbolic threshold. Many people are ingrained to believe that if they cave on guns, that's the ballgame folks. Government steps in and controls their lives. Sure people want guns for all the reasons you've mentioned but it's more than that. Americans are fiercely proud of how they became a country. They look past the atrocities against Indians, Africans (at the time), French, Spanish (granted they had their own atrocities) etc. You may think 200 years is a long time, it isn't when it's continually ingrained that they cannot allow anyone to walk all over them like King George did again. The NRA is complicit in this but so are families. The second amendment was created for the right to hunt and feed your family as well as the need to protect the fledgling country that really had no army, no infrastructure, no identity.

Americans are very slow to change (metric system anyone?). They are even slower to accept criticism from outsiders. People here, for the most part, don't give a shit how it's done in Canada, Europe or elsewhere. When I keep saying it's ingrained, I mean it. It is so deeply rooted as a symbol of freedom for millions that you are not going to take it away so easily. In their minds they have the guns to revolt should the day ever come. I kid you not. I've been trying to get you guys to understand for years, it's clearly apparent that you never will. Also, don't mistake reasoning for defending. I disagree with many issues in the gun culture. I made sure and continue to make sure I'm licensed and responsible. I wish everyone was. This is the world in which I chose to live in, how much longer though I don't know.

You're getting hyperbolic again and please stop saying AK47. There is an immense difference between an AR15 and an AK47. If you knew anything about guns you'd know that and how silly it sounds when you continually say it.
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We seem to be trying to make a similar point, while at the same time saying "You don't get my point!" I get it. I know gun culture is ingrained. It's part of American DNA. But you have to admit (and are sort of admitting) that the 'Don't Tread On Me - I have the right to bear arms' is a bullshit NRA slogan. However, for people who have had that mentality their whole life, change is extremely difficult, if not impossible. That's why I wouldn't even try to argue against rifles for hunting or handguns for self-protection.

And I keep saying AK-47 because for all practical intents and purposes, there is no difference between that and an AR-15. Yes, there is a technical difference, and they're very different weapons, but at the end of the day you still haven't provided a single reason why anybody needs to own one. Either one. An AK47 or an AR15. In practical terms, they serve one purpose and one purpose only, the exact same purpose - to kill a large # of humans in a short amount of time. That's why they should be banned, because no civilian needs to do that, or has the right to do that.
 
axlsalinger said:
If this is true, get it the **** done already. Enough posturing. I don't believe there are many conservatives who will go on the record (off the record is an entirely different story) because they're scared shitless of the NRA. But if they have the balls and a sensible plan for background checks and gun law tightening with teeth, get it the **** done. Now.
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It's the lobby Axl. You say get it done already. How about getting immigration reform done already? They've been talking about it for 20 years.

Sanctuary cities? Bullshit and illegal. There are so many issues that both sides refuse to move on. When will you realize that when the deaths of 20 Children under the age of 8 wasn't enough to move the needle that the deaths of armed officers surely won't. What are people supposed to do when the government doesn't protect them? They protect themselves. Right or wrong, stats or not, it's a fact of life here.
 
Habsy said:
Did you even read that poll you posted or only looked at the first couple of questions?

Better and mandatory background checks? Pubs 90% approve.


"Do you favor or oppose a federal law requiring background checks on all potential gun buyers?"


Favor Oppose Unsure/
No answer
% % %

6/13-14/16

89 8 2

Republicans
Would you support or oppose a law requiring background checks on people buying guns at gun shows or online?"


Support Oppose Unsure/
No answer
% % %

12/16-20/15

89 9 2

Republicans

92 6 2

"As you may know, individuals on the U.S. government's terrorist watch list are not allowed to fly on planes. Would you support or oppose banning those on the U.S. government's terrorist watch list from purchasing guns?"


Support Oppose Unsure/
No answer
% % %

12/16-20/15

83 13 4

Republicans

77 20 3



You claim Republicans don't want better background checks yet your own link proves you wrong. What politicians do is not reflective of the electorate.
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There is legit a question asking "would you support stricter gun regulations in the USA" where 69% of Republicans oppose. Convenient that you left this out. And 66% do not want a ban on semi-automatic and assault type weapons.

I know you think you are intelligent, but you are sadly out of touch with reality.
 
axlsalinger said:
We seem to be trying to make a similar point, while at the same time saying "You don't get my point!" I get it. I know gun culture is ingrained. It's part of American DNA. But you have to admit (and are sort of admitting) that the 'Don't Tread On Me - I have the right to bear arms' is a bullshit NRA slogan. However, for people who have had that mentality their whole life, change is extremely difficult, if not impossible. That's why I wouldn't even try to argue against rifles for hunting or handguns for self-protection.

And I keep saying AK-47 because for all practical intents and purposes, there is no difference between that and an AR-15. Yes, there is a technical difference, and they're very different weapons, but at the end of the day you still haven't provided a single reason why anybody needs to own one. Either one. An AK47 or an AR15. In practical terms, they serve one purpose and one purpose only, the exact same purpose - to kill a large # of humans in a short amount of time. That's why they should be banned, because no civilian needs to do that, or has the right to do that.
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How many times have I said need has nothing to do with it. It's want. At least a dozen already. They're legal and people will buy them. I also reject your hypothesis that the AR-15 only serves one purpose. They're recreational for the vast majority that own them. There are handguns on the market FAR more deadly than the AR-15 yet people that don't know fixate on the AR-15. I know guns. I shoot at least twice a week, sometimes more. When you know guns and hear people conflating one with the other it's pretty hard to continually listen to it. You'd think Obama and Clinton would actually know about guns, they don't. They continually talk out of their collective asses about them.

Here's my prediction... ban assault weapons (the AR-15 isn't one and I maintain that), you will not see a change. "assault weapons" make up less than 1% of death by firearm in the US. Mass shooting will simply occur with handguns, which can also hold extended clips.
 
leaffan2005 said:
There is legit a question asking "would you support stricter gun regulations in the USA" where 69% of Republicans oppose. Convenient that you left this out. And 66% do not want a ban on semi-automatic and assault type weapons.

I know you think you are intelligent, but you are sadly out of touch with reality.
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Really? I would oppose that too because it's not quantifiable. It's an open ended question. Once specific gun regulation questions are answered you get support.

One day you'll drink enough milk, your balls will drop and you'll learn that you cannot allow government to make blanket laws that can infringe on your rights. Most bills fail because of the pork in them. Congress needs to get back to simple laws and stop trying to insert wishlist items in them. When asked specific "stricter regulations" even Republicans agreed in the vast majority.

You really aren't very good at this. Stop with the gotcha politics.
 
I oppose a ban on semi-automatic weapons. They encompass over 80% of weapons today.

Background checks, licensure etc? No problem.

Also, I now have a class 3 weapons permit. I can buy automatic, military grade weaponry. Took me a long while to go through the background check but it finally came through. Do I need it? No. Owning suppressors and other cool stuff is fun collecting. Besides, those that know me or of me would pick a softer target.
 
You are honestly a buffoon. I'm done arguing with a senile nutjob who is out of touch with reality and one that thinks Conservatives support stricter gun laws.

Continue shooting your guns and protecting your precious freedoms. Hopefully these gun related deaths do not hit close to home or you may actually change your ridiculous stance and not waste your energy differentiating an AR-15 from an assault rifle.
 
I wonder whose reality I'm out of touch with actually... mine, living in the US and experiencing these shootings or your reality of living in Canada opining on American reality?

I'm so glad your done with me kid, recess is almost over.
 
Yeah, you really are "experiencing" this stuff right? Have you had a family member hurt because of your precious guns? If not, you are experiencing it the same way as the rest of us. Through the comfort of your own home.

So keep it up with your catchy one liners because you just look like an even bigger fool by continuing with this charade.
 
Your reality and mine are not the same. Stop pretending it is. I lived in Canada for a long time, it's nowhere close.

Do you worry about your kids getting shot at school? Wife shot in a store?

You're crossing the line kid. ****ing imbecile.
 
Ivory tower stuff here from some posters. My sister lived in Texas up till a month ago. People have revolvers everywhere.

If I lived in the states I'd be packing.
 
Just because the culture is different doesn't mean they can't do things in a better, safer way. I think most republicans don't want terrorist and mentally ill buying guns and killing their kids. The NRA is the problem. So is people treating the constitution and bill of rights as infallible and suited to modern times. Rights need to evolve and be limited where necessary.
 
I have family that lives in St.Louis (def worrying sometimes based on the stuff that you hear from there and the other major cities)
 
Do you take responsibility for your actions L101? You seem like someone that does. Do you?
 
That's how a great many people feel about guns. It's the person that causes the damage, not the gun.

This philosophy of "you can't cure stupid so we have to take them away" isn't going to work. Reasonable people understand there are stupid people out there but don't believe they should be punished for them.

That's the basic argument. Taking responsibility for your own actions. A few kids can't play nice so nobody gets to.
 
I don't believe in taking away guns. It's not even practical IMO. But there are steps that you can take.

Taking responsibility for your own actions and living with the consequences of the few dummy's is not a good enough argument for me. The stakes are just so high with guns, literally life and death. We see when people have easy access and get left to their own devices they don't appreciate taking responsibility for their actions and people die. I'd rather prevent people from dying than punish for murdering innocent people. Even if the problem isn't with most.
 
I don't disagree. Usually when children can't play nice they're removed from the rest. The US needs to figure out how to do that effectively without punishing those that play nice. Those that play nice need to have that discussion and help figure it out.
 
Part of the problem is that Americans view their Constitution as this infallible, static document that doesn't change. The reality is that laws are organic and ever-changing with the developments and value changes in society. The Second Amendment is just that. AN AMENDMENT. A change in laws from the original statutes. If the American Constitution was this perfect, all-encompassing document, there wouldn't be the thirty-something amendments that exist now. It was changed then. It can be changed today.

This isn't frontier times when guns were quite literally the difference between life and death (used for defending oneself against hostile Natives, wild animals, and ensuring a reliable food supply). There is no need to be packing an AR-15 in 2016. There's just none. Your average civilian should never have access to borderline military hardware.
 
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