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OT: American Politics

But you can't have a serious discussion about it because everyone has gone completely OCD on this Russia bullshit, which is just a distraction from what actually happened in the 2016 election. Even if you don't buy that, total and complete non-stop focus on that avoids discussion or even consideration that there might have been something other than Russian interference at play.
 
it's not a distraction.

putin has been waging war against western democracies with frightening success.
 
zeke said:
it's not a distraction.

putin has been waging war against western democracies with frightening success.
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So, why then is it so difficult to get anyone here to give consideration to Trump's win beyond this? I've repeatedly posted reasons why he had large popular support which has been completely ignored.
 
BeLeafer said:
But you can't have a serious discussion about it because everyone has gone completely OCD on this Russia bullshit, which is just a distraction from what actually happened in the 2016 election. Even if you don't buy that, total and complete non-stop focus on that avoids discussion or even consideration that there might have been something other than Russian interference at play.
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Of course there were other factors at play in the election. I don't think anyone denies that. But none of that is as important as the quiet war Vladdy has been waging on the west.

This is not the populism you're looking for.
 
BeLeafer said:
So, why then is it so difficult to get anyone here to give consideration to Trump's win beyond this? I've repeatedly posted reasons why he had large popular support which has been completely ignored.
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Because the reasons he has the support he does has been beat to death in this thread over the last few years. We spent weeks/months talking Piketty, the shitty economics of the states Trumps temporarily borrowed enough support from to win in 2016, at least as much time on the rise of white nationalism/racism/white identity politics, etc, etc, etc.
 
Beyond the Democratic party, the other thing that causes concern that involves American politics is Trump's aggression toward Russia. But this is just dimissed as tail waging the dog.

This is probably the most dangerous thing going on in the world today. Two fascist wing nuts with massive arsenals at risk of a serious confrontation.
 
MindzEye said:
Because the reasons he has the support he does has been beat to death in this thread over the last few years. We spent weeks/months talking Piketty, the shitty economics of the states Trumps temporarily borrowed enough support from to win in 2016, at least as much time on the rise of white nationalism/racism/white identity politics, etc, etc, etc.
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Which I'd be happy to debate. That's more DNC messaging, imo. 'The deplorables'

Why did Trump spend so much time going on about the rigged system, NAFTA, campaigning in the rust belt, draining the swamp? Were those racist dog whistles? No.
 
BeLeafer said:
So, why then is it so difficult to get anyone here to give consideration to Trump's win beyond this? I've repeatedly posted reasons why he had large popular support which has been completely ignored.
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you're conflating the Russia investigation with the belief that the Russians are the only reason why trump won.

I was just arguing one of the many reasons Trump won on here today.
 
BeLeafer said:
Beyond the Democratic party, the other thing that causes concern that involves American politics is Trump's aggression toward Russia. But this is just dimissed as tail waging the dog.

This is probably the most dangerous thing going on in the world today. Two fascist wing nuts with massive arsenals at risk of a serious confrontation.
Click to expand...

Trump's aggression to Russia? I'm going to borrow a recent Zekeism here on that one.

kabuki.jpg


How many times does he have to try to lift sanctions (that are there for a good reason), or to unilaterally (after bi partisan support in congress and the senate) refuse to sign a bill to place further sanctions on Russia? Then there was his hilarious performance in Helsinki of course, good times.

Yeah, he green lit weapons sales to Ukraine (of anti tank missile systems that the Russians already had counter measures for), and he bombed an empty airfield in Syria. I'm having a hard time thinking of other examples of his aggression towards Russia aside from those token measures.
 
Like I said, not serious.

The only way to have such a discussion is to convince you guys that Trump is not a puppet of Putin. So, yeah, I do try to do that. (I'm actually quite shocked at how much you've drunk that kool aid, as I regard you both and le coq as intelligent people.) But, of course, only to then to be accused of loving Putin.
 
BeLeafer said:
Which I'd be happy to debate. That's more DNC messaging, imo. 'The deplorables'

Why did Trump spend so much time going on about the rigged system, NAFTA, campaigning in the rust belt, draining the swamp? Were those racist dog whistles? No.
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Because a generation of tax cuts for the rich, and next to zero investment in education and infrastructure hase robbed the US industrial belt of it's standard of living. There were legitimate economic concerns that the Clinton democrats weren't speaking to during the election. Clinton didn't want to step on the toes of her donor class and the republican leaning donor class knew that Trump was a con man who would say whatever he needed to.

You're way late to this party man, you're not saying anything new that hasn't been discussed here ad nauseum.
 
I think all sorts of other topics are discussed here. just look through the last few pages.

the Mueller report that just came out is news though.
 
MindzEye said:
Because a generation of tax cuts for the rich, and next to zero investment in education and infrastructure hase robbed the US industrial belt of it's standard of living. There were legitimate economic concerns that the Clinton democrats weren't speaking to during the election. Clinton didn't want to step on the toes of her donor class and the republican leaning donor class knew that Trump was a con man who would say whatever he needed to.

You're way late to this party man, you're not saying anything new that hasn't been discussed here ad nauseum.
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Clearly that kind of discussion has had little, if any, impact. The point is to think about 2020. If this stuff continues as it is, dems will lose again.

In terms of Clinton abandoning the working class, that's typical of dems for the past 30 years. They would have won if they had of done differently.
 
zeke said:
I think all sorts of other topics are discussed here. just look through the last few pages.

the Mueller report that just came out is news though.
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In part because I brought up other topics. Left to yourselves it's pretty much wall-to-wall, Republicans steal elections.
 
BeLeafer said:
In part because I brought up other topics. Left to yourselves it's pretty much wall-to-wall, Republicans steal elections.
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1) which has had very little to do with Russia
2) the recent midterms are the most important story in American politics the last month at least
 
BeLeafer said:
Like I said, not serious.

The only way to have such a discussion is to convince you guys that Trump is not a puppet of Putin. So, yeah, I do try to do that. (I'm actually quite shocked at how much you've drunk that kool aid, as I regard you both and le coq as intelligent people.) But, of course, only to then to be accused of loving Putin.
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You've put forward no evidence though, and I've got decades worth of evidence of Trump's involvement with the Russian mafia/oligarchs and having willingly put himself in the orbit of the few political operators that were fluent in Russian graft during that time.

You call it kool aid for some reason, when it's a publicly documented narrative over 15 years old. I knew most of this shit about the scumbag before he entered politics, this isn't a new opinion based on R's or D's. Trump was washing money for Putin connected people through his real estate as far back as 2005.
 
Russia is just one variant on the theme.

This stuff about Republicans being the only ones who steal elections is fiction. Have you looked at Dem-controlled NY state? Massive voter suppression efforts to keep poor and unwhite people from voting.
 
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