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OT: The News Thread

Leafovic said:
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-morality/
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Here's your problem in a nutshell...

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I wish that was the worst one. ie like honor killings. If a female commits the offense, most middle-east countries/north africa/south-asia are between 50 to 70% in-favor of the honor killing. But then even places like Russia and kosovo are 40% in-favor..not exactly small.
 
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Some nice quotes from the article you posted.

Muslims around the world strongly reject violence in the name of Islam
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In most countries where the question was asked, roughly three-quarters or more Muslims reject suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilians. And in most countries, the prevailing view is that such acts are never justified as a means of defending Islam from its enemies.
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Given a choice between a leader with a strong hand or a democratic system of government, most Muslims choose democracy.
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The survey finds widespread concern about religious extremism in Southeast Asia, South Asia and the Middle East-North Africa region. In nearly every country surveyed in these regions, at least half of Muslims say they are very concerned or somewhat concerned about extremist groups.
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I'm not saying that there aren't out-dated views and points of reference that need to be addressed in the future. But it's extremely unfair to say that most of the Muslims that come over have views that we find reprehensible, making them an imminent threat to our security.
 
Yeah, it's not a very nice religion to women. That's not news. Unfortunate 1.6 billion subscribe to it.
 
The views on women, marriage and extramarital affairs is definitely a thought process that needs to change in the Muslim faith. And with knowledge of how things are going in Iran, this has already improved 10-fold compared to even 5 years ago.
 
Not to agree with 2005 but is it not reasonable to assume those that come over here are in the statistical minority of the research you posted Leafovic? It would stand to reason that those that approve of Sharia law and most of it's aspects would stay in their native countries and those that disapprove would look to get out.
 
"Most" is probably unfair and inaccurate, but how about half? I don't see any position where if you took an average of all the countries, that half aren't on the wrong side. (and sadly, usually more than that)
 
Habsy said:
Not to agree with 2005 but is it not reasonable to assume those that come over here are in the statistical minority of the research you posted Leafovic? It would stand to reason that those that approve of Sharia law and most of it's aspects would stay in their native countries and those that disapprove would look to get out.
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That is very reasonable...but enough of the crazies get in.

I just think it's very hypocritical for liberals to make the point day in and day out how horrible Christians in America are..they are racist, sexist, and homophobic, and then basically accept people into the country who are 100 times worse. It makes no sense.
 
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Leafovic said:
That is very reasonable.
I just think it's very hypocritical for liberals to make the point day in and day out how horrible Christians in America are..they are racist, sexist, and homophobic, and then basically accept people into the country who are 100 times worse. It makes no sense.
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There you go again with the hyperbole. They are not 100x worse, that is what you aren't getting. How many honour killings have happened in the States by Muslim men against their own wives? We have already talked about the relatively small number of terrorist attacks that have happened here, and we have already spoke about the myth that these attacks happen due to immigration policies. So you are just spitting in the wind right now with all of these claims.

Bad is bad. Homophobic, racist, sexist Christians are bad. So are the Muslims who subscribe to 3rd world views on women, religion, etc. You have been conditioned to believe one group is significantly worse/caused more disruption when the data just doesn't support your claims.
 
Women are treated like dog shit by Muslim men. In fact there was an incident this week in a public Mississauga pool where a woman could not enter the pool because other men were in the pool. As a result, she broke the pool rules by not being in the pool with her child and then cried racism.
 
leaffan2005 said:
There you go again with the hyperbole. They are not 100x worse, that is what you aren't getting. How many honour killings have happened in the States by Muslim men against their own wives? We have already talked about the relatively small number of terrorist attacks that have happened here, and we have already spoke about the myth that these attacks happen due to immigration policies. So you are just spitting in the wind right now with all of these claims.

Bad is bad. Homophobic, racist, sexist Christians are bad. So are the Muslims who subscribe to 3rd world views on women, religion, etc. You have been conditioned to believe one group is significantly worse/caused more disruption when the data just doesn't support your claims.
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Hyperbole, eh?

Ok...tell me, 1. how many nations around the world apply sharia law fully or at least partially? 2. how many muslims in those countries believe in sharia law? (you can use pew, or another source) 3. is the treatment of gays, women, or minorities similar in extent to what goes on in Western society?
 
Leafovic said:
Hyperbole, eh?

Ok...tell me, 1. how many nations around the world apply sharia law fully or at least partially? 2. how many muslims in those countries believe in sharia law? (you can use pew, or another source) 3. is the treatment of gays, women, or minorities similar in extent to what goes on in Western society?
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I have already agreed with you on a lot of these points. My point of contention is your exaggerated claims that most Muslims entering this country believe and will act on despicable principles that are very different than our own. I have already shown you quotes from your own article that paints a different picture. And as Habsy said, these stats are likely an over-estimation based on the fact that they do not control for those immigrating to America and leaving their home country, where belief in things like Sharia Law are more prevalent. You have to ask yourself a simple question: why do so many of these people want to come to the West? Do they all see it as a path to destroy America? Or do they actually just despise the conditions they are living in and want to get away from all of the atrocities that you have outlined?

This fear of refugees that has been sparked by these recent terror attacks (many of them having nothing to do with immigration) have clouded people's judgements on this matter.
 
Furthermore, this religious segregation and fear just plays into the fanatical goals of the ISIS ideology. And it is working. I am sure if you polled Americans right now, they would be much more likely to vote for a ban on Muslim immigration vs. 6 months ago.

Which is said, because it is just perpetuating the end-game of these groups and setting up a divide that really shouldn't exist. Muslims are just as afraid of the ISIS ideology (if not more), and have paid a much bigger price for their presence vs. the west.
 
My point of contention is your exaggerated claims that most Muslims entering this country believe and will act on despicable principles that are very different than our own.
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I did not say that most muslims entering the country will act on their extreme values. You made that up. I said that most muslims (and I don't mind changing that to 50% of muslims, on average), have values, on a wide variety of topics, that we would find disgusting or repulsive. Terrorism is largely a muslim problem because of their messed up values but it's just one symptom or behavior of those f'ed up values. My point is that if you allow these people to enter our country at higher rates, they'll attempt to change how we live in other ways. We see a bit of that in Europe..where there are muslim ghettos, and women can't walk around in certain clothing.

Furthermore, while I do agree that on average we're accepting immigrants that are less extreme, the fact that so many muslim terrorists are home-grown, might tell us that the real problem may be irreconcilable differences. These values get passed on, and these people can't accept that in Western society women, gays, minorities (jews), have rights, and then they lose their mind.
 
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