OT: The News Thread
- Thread starter MindzEye
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worm
Well-known member
I guess if you are grading them on a different scale.....
worm
Well-known member
I find it crazy just like observing Gen Zers in public spaces. I honestly don't think it's a stretch to say that their online world is more 'real' to them than the real world. and vice versa.
but again, I wait for the research, assuming science survives. cause I know much of my views are based on anecdotes and my biased experiences.
but judging by the lack of substantive responses by zeke, I fear he has no substance to add
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MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
I would expect different generations to have different skillsets by virtue of the different environments they were raised in.
So yeah I'm a bit disappointed that the Gen Z'ers aren't significantly better than other generations at spotting online information operations, misinformation, conspiracy theories, etc.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Surely you see how this might be different, no?
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Congratulations, you just signed up to be a white nationalist. Deckie will get you your new uniform.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
Wayward DP
Well-known member
again, I really wish there were substantive responses and rebuttals. I know I have biases, but no one has made any remotely compelling case yet as to why Gen Z doesn't suck.
worm
Well-known member
A) just back to my original point of old generations thinking younger generations are the worst. I've seen this shit for decades without any evidence.
B) And you have made zero case why they suck.
I just showed you that they voted against Trump the most. That is the only real thing put forward as to why they suck
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Thing is...split the age cohort by gender and it becomes easy to see where the concern really is. This isn't the usual "everyone younger than me sucks" stuff. We're watching a cohort of angry, poorly equipped young men come of age and the early results are a dangerous tilt towards authoritarianism....
But yeah, something something turn your shitty music down and get a job i guess.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
I don't have peer-reviewed studies, but I do have my personal experiences, and those of friends and colleagues. and, as I have said repeatedly, this anecdotal experience reflects extremely poorly on Gen Zers.
some specific, repeated criticisms:
- no work ethic (and yeah, this one repeats itself for every generation - but the examples I have heard and experienced are in my view very egregious. i.e. an employee who felt entitled to simply come and go as they please based on their purported childcare obligations, which were never communicated or approved. basically an AWOL employee who's defence was always, 'but mah kid'. I've also heard so many examples of people 'ghosting' in basically every possible scenario. no showing job interviews. no showing for work after being hired, etc. at the old summer job I used to work at, the work requirements have been lessened since the new workers basically refuse to meet the old ones, which were entirely reasonable).
- poor communication skills. this applies broadly. poor verbal communication. absolutely abysmal non-verbal communication (likely some pandemic effects here).
- poor social skills. these kids do not know how to have an in-person conversation and it's shocking.
- gross sense of entitlement. don't feel like they need to do entry level work as it is beneath them.
all of the above are things I have encountered personally or have been relayed to me by friends and acquaintances.
one of my good friends runs a social media marketing company. this person is one of the most empathetic and accommodating people I have ever met. a parent, a spouse, extremely understanding, very high emotional intelligence. they are shocked by how difficult it is to find committed, reliable, and hard-working employees.
I've also had people ghost me for job interviews.
technology has lots of benefits, but one thing not talked about it how it can render personal interactions... less meaningful in the eyes of some folks. personal connections matter less when humans become disposable because technology makes new ones always available a few clicks away.
see above.
I disagree that that is the correct conclusion to take from those numbers. younger people supported Dems less in 2024 than in either of the previous two elections. I'd have to take a deeper dive into when the Gen Z cutoff is in the chart numbers you posted to isolate their voting preferences, but my take away is actually the opposite of yours. they swung more heavily towards trump than previous youngsters. as more Gen Zers came of voting age, more of them voted Trump.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
yeah this is a useful caveat. young men IMO are in much worse shape than young women. and I don't even entirely blame young men - there's a lot working against them. but if they turn into nazi supporters, it's a problem for all of us.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Source?
worm
Well-known member
Appreciate you typing that all out.
This gets back to my original point. Younger generations always get shit on by older ones. Lack of hard work, entitlement, etc. Straight from the anti millennial play book.
Most of these are the exact same complaints about Gen y.
I don't even consider these all bad things.
As a millennial...
You want to talk to me on the phone like a fucking boomer? Go fuck yourself. Get with the times. You want to force ppl into the office because you're too stupid to track employees virtually? Go fuck yourself.
When I started work there was two senior leaders that had to get emails printed for them. Seems ridiculous now but the older generations always resist the new communication styles.
People do not seem to criticize millennials as much now. Is that because the people have changed or the society has changed? Both?
The chart shows that 29 and under support Dems the most. Gen z is 18 to 28. So I guess maybe it is 29 year olds carrying the day.
Honestly I'm more interested in the gender divide and urban rural divide.
worm
Well-known member
Forumice.com
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Wayward DP
Well-known member
I appreciate this, which is why I keep saying I know I am biased.
the recent examples I have experienced seem much more egregious in my view.
people refusing to talk on the phone makes my job significantly more difficult. some conversations are best had in person. and it is often more efficient to do so anyways. one phone call can often save hours of emails. it's disingenuous to pretend that all forms of communication are equal at all times (I'm not suggesting you are doing this, just a larger point).
again, for some jobs, sure. for the work I do? in-person attendance is essential for certain tasks.
and that's not even discussing teambuilding, morale, etc.
yah I mean if you're gonna criticize the youngs then the olds are fair game too, no complaints here.
I'm gonna go with both here.
they still support the Dems less than in 2016 and in 2020, when Gen Z made up a smaller part of the electorate.
definitely interesting and worth exploring.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
So yeah, I think we always need to keep the "old man shaking his fist at clouds" syndrome in the front of our minds when analyzing this, but I also don't think that we need to be 100% relativisitic about it either. Social/cultural things can tilt towards broadly good or broadly bad and sweeping all criticisms under the rug because something something cranky old people are cranky is dumb. A number of the things mentioned here simply seem to produce bad outcomes.
I think we can pretty comfortably say at this point that the style of socialization and communication by Gen Z produces poorer social happiness outcomes. Monstrously higher rates of anxiety and depression among other disorders...which yes, is at least partially from a decreased or non existent stigma regarding mental health with that generation (ironically...good) but there's been too much data generated on the mental health improvements that come from various types of "touching grass" for us to conclude that it's all from the willingness to self report on surveys across generations. A fair part of their mental health problems come from how they choose to interact with the world (which of course is at least partially influenced by how they were raised....) and we should be pushing back on some of it.