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Re-evaluating Dion

number17

Mod Squad
When the Bruins cruised to a 4-0 rout over the Leafs, one glaring play where Kessel was beat cleanly by Krejci and Phaneuf, in essentially a 2 on 1 scenario, allowed Kirecji free path to the net (and eventually scored) brought a lot of criticisms on Dion's defensive ability as the team's #1 dman. This brings an interesting discussion - What IS Dion Phaneuf, what is his strength, what is his weakness, and is Carlyle using him appropriately?

A good analysis has been done by MLHS here and concluded Dion's always been a subpar defensive defenseman and Carlyle's decision to make him the defensive-go-to guy is the biggest reason for Toronto's big GAA.

The board's had numerous discussions on Dion but what is clear has been ...

- Carlyle's made Dion his #1 defensive (and also offensive) defenseman

- Carlyle's relied on Dion for all key situation, including 5v5, PK, close games, dying minutes

- Carlyle's given Dion the toughest defensive assignment, tougher than most dman in the league

- Dion's corsi #, despite poor compared to the rest of the league, constantly leads the team when considered the quality of opponents he had to face

- Toronto's had some major, major breakdown in key minutes of the game, nothing more vivid than the game 7 breakdown vs. the Bruins, and Dion was on the ice for a lot of the key goals in that game

- Carlyle, for all his faults, have no choice but to lean heavily on #3, given that his 2nd best best defenseman has been Gunnarson with a bad hip, a 37 year old Robidas who looks like he may be able to handle 2nd unit duty when he finally get his timing back, or extremely young and inconsistent youngsters like Gardiner and Rielly. Whether Carlyle realizes or not realize Dion's limitation, he has no choice.

- Carlyle's system does not help any player defensively, even if you were Chara or Doughty.


But it does seem like what this team really needs is a defensive anchor to partner with Dion to ease his defensive responsibility, so that he can go back to being an offensive defenseman who also happen to be a workhorse capable of heavy minutes, and NOT having to be that defensive go-to guy.

Unfortunately, in another attempt to help Toronto's blueline, the Robidas experiment has not looked good and Toronto's best defensive defenseman is Polak, who is good, but is limited. I don't see Polak as a top unit guy at all, but he can be a very competent 2nd unit guy (which is more than Gunnarson with a bad hip can do)
 
No doubt he looked bad on those two goals in the boston game, but its really hard to tell at the moment what we "need" defensively because of thse factors:

1) Leafs have been just a mediocre, not bad, Goals against team this year.
2) Leafs have been just a medicore, not bad, Shots against team this year.
3) Leafs have been just a mediocre, not bad, possession team this year in even strength close situations.
4) Phaneuf has been one of the best possession players on the team.
5) Despite being on for some glaring goals against, Dion is positive on the +/- side as well....and that's not based on being on the ice for a bunch of goals, as he's posting one of the best goals against per 60min stats on the team as well.


So if this trend continues, with Phaneuf being a + player in both shot-based and goal-based metrics as the top guy with the toughest qualcomp on an average defensive team.....well, then, it'll be hard to criticize his defense much.
 
Phaneuf needs a better partner than Cody Franson.

Get Phaneuf a guy like:

Kevin Bieksa
Dan Girardi
Josh Gorges
Johnny Boychuk
Dennis Wideman

And watch the teams fortunes change.
 
Its too early to give up on Robidas. He'll still likely end up being the guy to fill that spot, and overall he has been as good as anyone on that list.

In the long run it will have to come from within, with the development of a guy like Rielly, Gardiner or Percy.
 
Wideman sucks, Flames fans can't get rid of that guy fast enough.

Could be right, i just remember him being a good defenseman before. 5 Million is a big cap hit as well. Mark Giordano would be an excellent addition to the team.
 
Top 30 d probably. But on the lower end. I guess in that sense he's a #1, but he'll need way more support from the rest of his d if the Leafs ever plan on winning with him as their best d.

Generally though, I think he'd be best suited as a 2 on a great team. Hopefully Rielly can become that 1, and they'll be set.
 
Top 30 d probably. But on the lower end. I guess in that sense he's a #1, but he'll need way more support from the rest of his d if the Leafs ever plan on winning with him as their best d.

Generally though, I think he'd be best suited as a 2 on a great team. Hopefully Rielly can become that 1, and they'll be set.

We start getting into some really ridiculous names being better than Dion when you get past about 15-17.

Realistically, Dion is part of a pack of defenders like Kronwall, Giordano, Shattenkirk, etc that are a step down from the legit elite, but are legit #1's
 
Wideman is over-paid, injury-prone and a defensive liability. He's essentially a very good 6 or 7th defenceman and powerplay point shot.
 
Phanuef is at worst a 15th to 20th ranked defender, and on occasion he sneaks into the top 10 when he's on form. He hasn't had an overly reliable D partner since he's been here.
 
Phanuef is at worst a 15th to 20th ranked defender, and on occasion he sneaks into the top 10 when he's on form. He hasn't had an overly reliable D partner since he's been here.

He's had Franson this year. Shocking he hasn't "looked" good.
 
Missed that beleafer, but it's a good article.

It isn't about Dion being a top 15 or 20 dman (which i believe he is) ... it is about where Dion is compared with other 1st unit guys DEFENSIVELY.

Because the problem with Dion in TO is, Carlyle (out of alternatives too) is using him as the go-to guy for all situations - offensive, defensive, special teams.

When the advanced stats seem to indicate Dion is (or was, his offence has taken a step back last season and thus far this year) a good offensive defenseman, who's only average plus defensively, and is being put into a very tough situation here in Toronto.

Assuming Dion get back to form offensively, he sure should be the go to guy on PP, but should he get the toughest 5v5 minutes? Should he get the PK1 minutes? Should the Leafs get someone else (outside or from within the system) to do the heavy lifting for him while he focuses on offense, just like how Subban or Karlsson is being used in MTL and OTT (NOT comparing Dion to them, but comparing how a dman is used)?

I think Dion will be a better dman and Toronto a better team IF he doesn't have to get the #1 QoC minutes, and he can slide back to #2 or #3, and someone can also play most of his PK minutes.
 
the article has one basic flaw which really weakens it ---- the metrics he uses tell him that guys like Aulie and Komisarek have had comparable recent usage to phaneuf, which is patently ridiculous, and brings into question the basic assumptions he is making.
 
We had this same discussion when Beleafer posted the article.

dionphaneuf2012-14.2.png


Harrison, Komisarek, Aulie, Kostka?

How does he determine these guys are "deployed comparably"?

Brings the whole thing into serious question, IMO.
 
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