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Round 2 Game 5 GDT: Canes v. Lightning 6/8 6:30

cmon3

Well-known member
This team, all season was resilient. That’s great, but the problem that ended their season w there all season. They never really quite put it together and eliminated the need to be resilient. Instead of turning a 3-0 lead into 5-0 they turned it into 3-3 and then resiliently won in OT or with a late goal.

I feel like that came back to bite them down the stretch and in OT. They always had a feeling that they could hit the gas when they needed to. Rod commented on it throughout the season at least indirectly. I think that’s something we lost when Williams retired. He wouldn’t allow them to ease up.

I feel like we got out worked in maybe ALL of our playoff games. Maybe all of the games since Dallas. I also think that’s why lower standings teams gave us fits - because we didn’t think we had to outwork them. You can have success by out working or out talenting another team. Tampa outworked us and was at least our equal in talent. I feel like they comfortably handled us.
 

polarbare

Member
Svech was for the most part a no show, you simply cannot have your top line players go awol for 11 playoff games...he was awful. Trochek, Nino, Necas...those three did not do near enough offensively in the post season...same for Turbo...too many passengers.
I disagree with this on some level. I know he had far from his best games, but he did have 1PPG vs. Tampa (I know that was mostly loaded into one game) and was .73PPG in the post season overall, which paralleled his .76PPG this season (.8PPG last year, and .68(?) the year before. The biggest issue here is maturity, he needs to not take bad penalties.

But I do concur with the overall sentiment; our top 6 guys didn't do enough collectively, no one stood up; Aho feels like the only constant. Add to that the D not contributing as much and it wasn't pretty.
 

cmaleski2

Well-known member
One thing about Tampa's '4th line', it includes Tyler Johnson, with a $5 million AAV. He's not a 4th liner, he's a 2nd/3rd line 40+ point guy with 60 points in 104 career playoff games. Pat Maroon has 42 points in 109 career playoff games. Maroon is getting paid like a 4th liner as he was willing to take less to play for Tampa.

That is a 3rd line+ for most NHL teams. And Tyler Johnson is still skilled enough to be a 2nd line guy. Here were the lines for Tampa last night:

Gourde-Goodrow-Coleman
Stamkos-Killorn-Cerelli
Point-Kucherov-Palat
T. Johnson-Maroon-Colton

That is about as good as you can get and a complete matchup nightmare for most of the NHL. Most NHL teams cannot do better than that 4th line.

Vegas' 4th line last night:

William Carrier-Keegan Kolesar-Patrick Brown They have 79 combined career playoff games and 10 career playoff points

Colorado's 4th line last night:

Alex Newhook-Pierre-Edouard Bellemare-Joonas Donskoi That is 130 combined career playoff games an 45 career playoff points (32 of them from Donskoi who is also not really a 4th line player).
 

CanadaCanes

Well-known member
I disagree with this on some level. I know he had far from his best games, but he did have 1PPG vs. Tampa (I know that was mostly loaded into one game) and was .73PPG in the post season overall, which paralleled his .76PPG this season (.8PPG last year, and .68(?) the year before. The biggest issue here is maturity, he needs to not take bad penalties.

But I do concur with the overall sentiment; our top 6 guys didn't do enough collectively, no one stood up; Aho feels like the only constant. Add to that the D not contributing as much and it wasn't pretty.
1 non-empty net goal in 11 playoff games from perhaps your biggest scoring threat is a major problem...his confidence for whatever reason was shot for the better part of the second half of the season and the playoffs. When you couple that with the undisciplined/costly penalties he seems to take...many in the offensive zone, it's just a disappointment from a guy that is far from his rookie season now. He likely gets a two year bridge deal now with hopes he can get everything worked out to a point where he is a bonafide leader and sniper for this team. For whatever reason, he seems to just be too hard on himself to a point where he hurts himself because once that confidence is gone with his offense, the bad, undisciplined parts of his game seem to increase.
 
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jeffbear

Mod Squad
Staff member
Svech was not anywhere near his best from the mid-point of the season onward. Even at something less than his best, he's still a useful player. And the outcome of a series cannot be on the shoulders of any one skater, IMO. Was he terrible? No? Was he as good as the Canes would have liked? Also no. He's also still a kid and still growing as a player. I think Svech is the least of the Canes problems going forward.
 

andyt

Canes Moderator
Staff member
Not to sound too sour grape-y, but I want to see what happens to that roster next year. Just their “core” players; Kucherov, Stamkos, Point, Palat, Gourde, Johnson, Cirelli, Killorn, Maroon, Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev, Cernak, Rutta and Vasilevskiy account for $83.5 million next year. Yes, they‘re going to lose one of them and, while they have a bunch of NTCs, only Kucherov and Hedman have NMCs and they would have been protected anyway. The consensus seems to be Palat or Johnson. Palat has a $5.3 million cap hit, Johnson is at $5 million. If either of them do go, the Bolts will have about $78.2 - $78.5 million remaining but only 14 players making up that number.
 

jeffbear

Mod Squad
Staff member
Not to sound too sour grape-y, but I want to see what happens to that roster next year. Just their “core” players; Kucherov, Stamkos, Point, Palat, Gourde, Johnson, Cirelli, Killorn, Maroon, Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev, Cernak, Rutta and Vasilevskiy account for $83.5 million next year. Yes, they‘re going to lose one of them and, while they have a bunch of NTCs, only Kucherov and Hedman have NMCs and they would have been protected anyway. The consensus seems to be Palat or Johnson. Palat has a $5.3 million cap hit, Johnson is at $5 million. If either of them do go, the Bolts will have about $78.2 - $78.5 million remaining but only 14 players making up that number.
Yeah ... you shoot for the Cup now and worry about that stuff later, but Tampa has a big roster churn coming no matter what they do. Hedman, Point, Kucherov, McDonagh, Stamkos and Vasilevskiy are all going nowhere. Everybody else? Who knows?
 

TheBigKahuna

Well-known member
Another takeaway from last night was the hunger and foul taste Aho had of losing...give me more of that hunger from quite a few more guys and this team may get over the hump eventually, I love that guys make up and his will to win!
I admire his tenacity but Aho simply isn't the guy who's going to carry a team. He needs help. And got none.
 

CanadaCanes

Well-known member
Not to sound too sour grape-y, but I want to see what happens to that roster next year. Just their “core” players; Kucherov, Stamkos, Point, Palat, Gourde, Johnson, Cirelli, Killorn, Maroon, Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev, Cernak, Rutta and Vasilevskiy account for $83.5 million next year. Yes, they‘re going to lose one of them and, while they have a bunch of NTCs, only Kucherov and Hedman have NMCs and they would have been protected anyway. The consensus seems to be Palat or Johnson. Palat has a $5.3 million cap hit, Johnson is at $5 million. If either of them do go, the Bolts will have about $78.2 - $78.5 million remaining but only 14 players making up that number.
I believe Tyler Johnson is a Washington state kid? He seems like the perfect storyline expansion draft add for the Kraken for some hometown flavor. Maroon is likely gone as he is not going to want to play for the league minimum yet again.
 

cmaleski2

Well-known member
I agree with you that Tyler Johnson to Seattle makes perfect sense. If you actually go right down the line with them they would protect:

Kucherov, Stamkos, Point, Palat, Gourde, Cirelli, Killorn

Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev

That leaves a choice between Tyler Johnson, Pat Maroon, Mathieu Joseph, Ross Colton, Erik Cernak,

Maroon actually is signed through next season.
 

jeffbear

Mod Squad
Staff member
I believe Tyler Johnson is a Washington state kid? He seems like the perfect storyline expansion draft add for the Kraken for some hometown flavor. Maroon is likely gone as he is not going to want to play for the league minimum yet again.
He would if he weren't so expensive and so unproductive. $5 million a year for five years for a guy who's not cracking your top line even on an expansion team? Ronnie and the gang are supposedly running the heavy duty stats models. I doubt any of them think Tyler Johnson is a good idea.

Maroon is addicted to winning. He'll stay if they win and want him back. He's 33 and WAY past his prime, so what's he going to do? Go play for $250,000 more on a bad team? I doubt it.
 

andyt

Canes Moderator
Staff member
He would if he weren't so expensive and so unproductive. $5 million a year for five years for a guy who's not cracking your top line even on an expansion team? Ronnie and the gang are supposedly running the heavy duty stats models. I doubt any of them think Tyler Johnson is a good idea.

Maroon is addicted to winning. He'll stay if they win and want him back. He's 33 and WAY past his prime, so what's he going to do? Go play for $250,000 more on a bad team? I doubt it.
Johnson has 3 years at $5 million cap but $14 million actual. And he is from Spokane, Washington, almost 300 miles from Seattle. He played for the Chiefs in the WHL too.
 

cmaleski2

Well-known member
T
He would if he weren't so expensive and so unproductive. $5 million a year for five years for a guy who's not cracking your top line even on an expansion team? Ronnie and the gang are supposedly running the heavy duty stats models. I doubt any of them think Tyler Johnson is a good idea.

Maroon is addicted to winning. He'll stay if they win and want him back. He's 33 and WAY past his prime, so what's he going to do? Go play for $250,000 more on a bad team? I doubt it.
Seattle needs to select at least the minimum cap number worth of players with their 30 picks. Johnson would be at least a 2nd line forward on Seattle's opening night roster immediately. I think they go there.
 

cmon3

Well-known member
I admire his tenacity but Aho simply isn't the guy who's going to carry a team. He needs help. And got none.
Well who is that guy? We had a lot of ineffectiveness out there which makes it hard to troubleshoot. They looked slow and disjointed and hesitant. They didn’t win races or board battles and pucks were rarely on the tape.
 

cmaleski2

Well-known member
Well who is that guy? We had a lot of ineffectiveness out there which makes it hard to troubleshoot. They looked slow and disjointed and hesitant. They didn’t win races or board battles and pucks were rarely on the tape.
Hopefully Seth Jarvis?
 

TheBigKahuna

Well-known member
Well who is that guy? We had a lot of ineffectiveness out there which makes it hard to troubleshoot. They looked slow and disjointed and hesitant. They didn’t win races or board battles and pucks were rarely on the tape.
I think too many people expected Aho to be one of those elite guys who can carry a team. But those players don't really exist. He needs consistent support players. And got none in the playoffs. Svech has been a huge disappointment so far. I think many, myself included, set expectations way too high for him.
 
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