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leafman101 said:
What do you think of him?

At the very least I like that he built creative, productive offenses around shitty/done QBs. And that he has some experience. Kinda sounds like a lunatic though.
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He was testy with the media.

He played Frank Gore over Kenyan Drake for reasons?

He hand picked a DC that led to the team having the worst D in the league despite an all pro corner.

He alienated DeVante Parker from the team when he was healthy for reasons?

Like, i think he sucks, and i'm stunned he didn't have to take another OC job before he rebuilt his cred as an offensive guru, but as much as i think he sucks, he's coming from the mediocre sespool that is Miami, who's owner refuses to rebuild and front office has a horrendous draft record. So i dunno.

I wouldn't have hired him as a HC though, OC maybe.
 
I don't mind giving him another shot given his offensive knowledge. You have to hope he learned something through failure. I do like that they have an offensive minded coach though to work with Darnold. Its literally the first time since I've been a fan of the Jets they hired an offensive minded head coach. Otherwise its just been a turnstile of OCs and changing systems every year. So at least you are giving Darnold some stability.

Ultimately I'm just not all that confident in Maccagnan calling the shots anyway. The only reason he got to hire a second coach was lucking into Darnold.

There wasn't really another coach out there that I was 100% sold on either. McCarthy has a great track record but he also probably underachieved considering he has the best QB ever. Ruhle/Kingsbury haven't accomplished anything in college. Then its just a bunch of coordinators like Gase was 4 years ago. Harbaugh is the only nobrainer if he ends up leaving Baltimore.
 
For Montana:

Adam’s Apple: Why the Jets picked Gase as New York’s next head coach
By Connor Hughes

Neither​ Christopher​ Johnson​ nor​ Mike​ Maccagnan would say much​ a little​ over a week ago. The​ two men spearheading​ the​​ Jets coaching search left all options open when asked to identify the type of candidate they wanted to run their franchise. But between their synchronized renditions of verbal ballet, one thing became evident:

Sam Darnold’s development was priority No. 1, 2 and 3. They needed to find the man who could help him reach his franchise quarterback potential.

After 10 days and eight interviews, they have their guy.

Adam Gase, welcome to New York.
...

This move isn’t going to sit well with some Jets fans who witnessed Gase’s struggles in Miami, read the reports of team turmoil and saw how it all led to his eventual firing. This hire may not make sense to those who preferred a collegiate option like Matt Rhule or the Super Bowl-winning experience of a Mike McCarthy.

Gase wasn’t, until the end, considered a frontrunner, as I’m told he had a tremendous interview with the Jets. Gase instilled faith among Johnson and Maccagnan that he can not only develop a quarterback, but a young team.

I’ve talked to several people familiar with Gase during his time in Denver and Chicago as well as those who saw what went wrong in Miami. He is what so many teams covet: A young, innovative offensive mind. They felt his downfall came in part due to the organizational structure in Miami. Gase had some personnel control (bringing in Jay Cutler and Brock Osweiler, signing Julius Thomas), but so did so many others. It was hard to tell who was doing what. It was an overwhelming and toxic environment for a first-time head coach. There was a feeling from those who know him that if presented an opportunity to get back to just coaching football, he would succeed. That’s something the Jets can offer.

...

There’s also a feeling Gase will learn from his shortcomings with the Dolphins and use those experiences to better himself. Chris Perkins, who covers the Dolphins for The Athletic, stressed this. In 2016, the Dolphins realized their strength was the run game. So they utilized it and Jay Ajayi. This helped set up the play-action pass, which in turn opened the passing game. Miami flipped that script on its head the next two years, emphasizing quarterback Ryan Tannehill. Suddenly they wanted the pass to set up the run. Tannehill never lived up to his potential, but the Dolphins never made a switch under center. Gase’s relationship with management and ownership eroded and it led to his firing.

In New York, Gase won’t have to worry about making those personnel decisions. He’ll have a better quarterback with more potential than Tannehill ever had. He’ll get a fresh start with a hands-off owner who allows those he pays to make the football decisions.

...

Here’s one concern:

Gase had a tendency in Miami to be a bit thin-skinned with the media when some of his philosophies and actions were questioned. Not just by the media, but the fan base. In a smaller market or in an assistant or coordinator role, that’s fine. New York is not a small market. Gase is not an assistant or coordinator. Most of this fan base is already questioning this hire and will look to jump on Gase as soon as things go south. There won’t be any honeymoon.

...

Peyton Manning is arguably the biggest feather in Gase’s cap. The Athletic confirmed he phoned the Jets to sing his former coach’s praises before this hire. With Gase as his offensive coordinator in 2013, Manning threw for 5,477 yards, an NFL-record 55 touchdowns and just 10 interceptions. Denver, as a team, had the highest-scoring offense in NFL history. Manning’s production dropped, but not by much, the next year. He threw for 4,727 yards, 39 touchdowns and 15 interceptions.

The Broncos moved on from John Fox after the 2014 season and Gase followed him to Chicago. In 2015, Gase worked with Jay Cutler. The veteran completed 64.4 percent of his passes and threw for 3,659 yards with 21 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. Cutler’s quarterback rating of 92.3 was the best of his career.

Tannehill, Gase’s quarterback in Miami, is the one guy who never seemed to find consistent success. Tannehill put up fine numbers during his two seasons under Gase (he missed 2017 with a knee injury), completing 65.9 percent of his passes with quarterback ratings of 93.5 and 92.7, but never ascended to that next tier.

...

Maccagnan said he and Johnson wouldn’t ask Darnold to sign off on any coaching hire, but they did want his opinion. The GM specifically said he’d like the potential coach and Darnold to spend some time together before a hire became official. Gase and Darnold haven’t met in person yet, but hit it off during a string of phone calls before this hire became official, The Athletic learned. Darnold, I’m told, is thrilled. That’s a big positive.

...

Bowles had many flaws during his four years with the Jets, all of which prevented him from having continued success. Among the more costly was his inability to build a staff. That’s usually overlooked during hires. All so many care about is the head coach — but his assistants and coordinators are just as important.

According to multiple reports, the Jets seem to have zeroed in on Dowell Loggains as offensive coordinator and Vance Joseph as defensive coordinator. Loggains worked with Gase in Miami, while Joseph was just fired after two years as the Broncos head coach. The Jets could look to retain current special teams coordinator Brant Boyer. Under his guidance, the Jets finished No. 1 in special teams DVOA rating this season.

Gase will undeniably have his fingerprints all over the offense this year. It will be his scheme. Odds are, he’ll call the plays. But Loggains would be a nice voice to add to the staff. He’s worked with quarterbacks since 2010 and was the Dolphins offensive coordinator last year. Orlovsky spoke highly of him on Wednesday night, describing the 38-year-old Loggains as “innovative.”
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https://theathletic.com/759086/2019...ets-picked-gase-as-new-yorks-next-head-coach/
 
leafman101 said:
I don't mind giving him another shot given his offensive knowledge. You have to hope he learned something through failure. I do like that they have an offensive minded coach though to work with Darnold. Its literally the first time since I've been a fan of the Jets they hired an offensive minded head coach. Otherwise its just been a turnstile of OCs and changing systems every year. So at least you are giving Darnold some stability.

Ultimately I'm just not all that confident in Maccagnan calling the shots anyway. The only reason he got to hire a second coach was lucking into Darnold.

There wasn't really another coach out there that I was 100% sold on either. McCarthy has a great track record but he also probably underachieved considering he has the best QB ever. Ruhle/Kingsbury haven't accomplished anything in college. Then its just a bunch of coordinators like Gase was 4 years ago. Harbaugh is the only nobrainer if he ends up leaving Baltimore.
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you think Rodgers is better than Brady?
 
No, but I've seen convincing arguments for Rodgers. Before Mahommes destroyed QB stats forever Rodgers was #1 all time in a lot of QB analytics. You can make a legit argument.

In that light McCarthy's record in Green Bay is not unlike Dungy for the Colts. Yeah you won a lot of games and a super bowel, but you had Peyton ****ing Manning and only won one Super Bowl. Kinda blew it.

Of course a lot of that is on management in Green Bay.
 
leafman101 said:
No, but I've seen convincing arguments for Rodgers. Before Mahommes destroyed QB stats forever Rodgers was #1 all time in a lot of QB analytics. You can make a legit argument.

In that light McCarthy's record in Green Bay is not unlike Dungy for the Colts. Yeah you won a lot of games and a super bowel, but you had Peyton ****ing Manning and only won one Super Bowl. Kinda blew it.

Of course a lot of that is on management in Green Bay.
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fair enough
 
leafman101 said:
I don't mind giving him another shot given his offensive knowledge. You have to hope he learned something through failure. I do like that they have an offensive minded coach though to work with Darnold. Its literally the first time since I've been a fan of the Jets they hired an offensive minded head coach. Otherwise its just been a turnstile of OCs and changing systems every year. So at least you are giving Darnold some stability.

Ultimately I'm just not all that confident in Maccagnan calling the shots anyway. The only reason he got to hire a second coach was lucking into Darnold.

There wasn't really another coach out there that I was 100% sold on either. McCarthy has a great track record but he also probably underachieved considering he has the best QB ever. Ruhle/Kingsbury haven't accomplished anything in college. Then its just a bunch of coordinators like Gase was 4 years ago. Harbaugh is the only nobrainer if he ends up leaving Baltimore.
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Gase was near the bottom of my list of the people we interviewed, only Kris Richard & Jim Caldwell were lower. (and only reason I disliked KR was he's a not an offensive guy, I'd have taken him as DC in a heartbeat).

People that know offense, respect Gase and specifically his offensive mind a ton.....Peyton Manning, Nick Saban, John Fox, Tony Romo, Alshon Jeffrey, Brandon Marshall, etc...

He also was the OC of the single most impressive offensive season in NFL history, #1 in TD's, and #1 in yards. Obviously most give all the credit to Manning for that, but (a) it happened in Manning's age 37 season, and (b) Manning himself gave Gase a ton of credit for his scheme/game planning & innovation. Also, said Gase is the smartest offensive mind he'd came across in his career.

I have a pile of issues with Gase, but one thing I don't worry about much is his play-calling, game planning, or his ability to make in game adjustments (his teams often always trended upwards as games progressed & finished strong, hence his 20-6 record in one score games)

Manning, Cutler, Tannehill, Landry, Demaryius Thomas, Knowshon Moreno, Julius Thomas, all had some of the best seasons of their careers under him....Manning, Landry, Demaryius, Moreno, Thomas, Kenny Stills, Ajayi, etc had their career high TD seasons with Gase play calling.

It's why I liked him as a OC candidate if we hired McCarthy...he's basically the Kingsbury/LaFleur offensive wunderkid hire but with some (mediocre/bad) HC experience.

I'm concerned over how he'll deal with the NY media, concerned with how he prepares a team for gameday, how he is as a motivator, how a defense will handle him being ostensibly hands off, etc etc.

....I'm not very concerned with how he'll help Darnold.

Question is how will McCagnan help him ...can he land a Paradis for the O-Line, can he trade for a Antonio Brown/AJ Green WR1 (is AB even an option anymore with how the Landry situation played out) can he sign a L. Bell. etc ..

If we sign some quality UFA's with our $100m in cap room, can get a DC like Gregg Williams, or Pagano, (or even Vance Joseph).....if we can make the most of the #3 slot by having one of Bosa/Allen fall to us, or trade down to acquire additional assets with a team moving up for a QB.

We can be a quality team trending in the right direction....but McCagnan has a fukkton of work ahead of him this offseason. Free Agency decides a lot.
 
Yep. Gase and Mac are the same. There are some things I like, but the track record is mixed. With Darnold, Adams, the #3 pick, $100 mill in cap space they have a big opportunity to prove themselves.

Either way we have Darnold and an offensive guru to maximize his potential. They may or may not have to clean house in 2 years. We'll see how it goes.
 
leafman101 said:
Yep. Gase and Mac are the same. There are some things I like, but the track record is mixed. With Darnold, Adams, the #3 pick, $100 mill in cap space they have a big opportunity to prove themselves.

Either way we have Darnold and an offensive guru to maximize his potential. They may or may not have to clean house in 2 years. We'll see how it goes.
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Also I think Robby, Enunwa, Herndon are some perfect complimentary weapons if McCagnan can land a WR1 (which Conor Hughes says is a top priority for the Jets this offseason) and/or L. Bell, who everyone seems to think we're a favorite for.

He needs to spend some real capital on that O-Line tho too...
 
Yeah they need to focus on the offense this year. **** defense. Throw everything at Bell. If they can get a legit WR1 that would be great, but even a better vet than Kearse. And yeah, take whatever linemen you can get. I'd probably trade down in the first to draft Williams and pick up some extra picks. The opposite of last year.

With all the cap space I'd also throw money at Clowney and/or Lawrence.
 
Not that 1 game should make or break a players stock but seeing Jonah Williams get eaten by Clellin Ferrell during the championship game is concerning. To move down in the draft for him you'd still be competing with teams that are looking for o-line help as well in the Bucs, Giants, Bills and possibly Broncos. I don't see a QB in this draft that teams would be looking to jump eachother to pick.
 
Teams always want to move up. You won't get a QB haul return but on the trade chart a move down from 3 to 6 is worth a 2nd and 4th.
 
leafman101 said:
Teams always want to move up. You won't get a QB haul return but on the trade chart a move down from 3 to 6 is worth a 2nd and 4th.
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You're right that the cost wouldn't be as high.

Say you do move down and Jonah Williams is already gone, do you go with the next best OL? Or do you play the draft board and go BPA? I was reading reports how Jonah Williams may not have the typical length required to stick at LT.

Some really good defensive talent in this draft.
 
There's two QBs who could go top 3...(17 of the past 18 drafts had QBs go in the top 3), with both Haskins & Kyler Murray declaring.

I think it's a near stone cold lock one of the Giants, Jags, Broncos, or Redskins end up in the top 3 to take their QB when it's all said an done.

I like Williams but agree I'd be hesitant to take him at 3....he could end up being a RT tbh....and there's plenty of o-line in this draft so I think if you trade down you're focused more on total assets for the long term than one specific guy.

If someone moves in to 1-2 for their QB tho...and Bosa/Allen fall, I think you might just have to take them.
 
leafman101 said:
Teams always want to move up. You won't get a QB haul return but on the trade chart a move down from 3 to 6 is worth a 2nd and 4th.
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Hypothetically...if Bosa/Allen go 1-2, and we trade to 6 with the Giants so they can make sure they get Haskins/Murray and the Jags don't leapfrog them? (Or help the Jags go from #7 to #3, so they can?)

We'd be getting a legit Colts-Jets type haul for sure.
 
Yeah, I don't think Williams is a stud, but even an above average 15 year starter at LT is really valuable. I've heard things about Little. Maybe keep trading down and go for one of the receivers.

They've invested so much in the D. This franchise is all about Darnold now. You have to help him out and give a chance to succeed.
 
Yeah Darnold changes the calculus....if Bosa/Allen are gone, I think you have to either take Jonah at 3, or trade down for a surplus of picks and get OL/WR a bit later.

Bosa in particular tho would be such a game changer if he fell in our lap I'd have to take him. (Then again the trade up offers for him would be bonkers)

Thankfully we'll at least know how free agency panned out wrt OL before we have to make our draft call.
 
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