The Tanking Issue

[axlsalinger]

It's a tough problem to fix. As I said to Jonas, it was kinda obvious at the start of the season that MacKinnon would contend for ROY, whereas I would have assumed Schwartz would spend most of the year in the minors. Pretending they were very similar prospects is kind of silly. Also, as I mentioned several times now, calling up MacKinnon enabled Jonas to add an extra prospect, which does have value to his team. An easy decision to me, since NM was a no-brainer and Jonas had a lot of junk on his active roster.

Regardless, maybe we need a rule in place where players above a certain # (perhaps 0.9 fppg) have to be called up.

 

[axlsalinger]

Also, need to hear from more people re: the minimum GP top-up rule. In particular M.E. since he came up with the idea. Seems like too many teams don't meet a 75 GP minimum. Maybe 70 or 72?

 

[Habspatrol]

Sorry can't do the fancy quoting so easily on my phone.

No worries, this works.

I looked at my roster and colbourne was last in terms of who I would keep up front. I had the decision, do I cut him loose? Or do I put Swartz in the minors and give colbourne more time to see if he's worth keeping around.

I don't get why you keep telling me Swartz is better than colbourne. I'm aware of that. About a whole 10 points of difference better during that span!

I keep saying it because you could have Colbourne in the minors and Schwartz playing C for you instead.

It's not unheard of for a player to lose a roster spot due to being minor eligible. Even good players can be sent down. Toews after draft year didn't make it straight away I believe, strome didn't make it right away, kadri here, cowen I believe didn't make it but thought he looked good enough to. If I had jays brain for prospects could probably list a lot more higher ceiling guys that were sent down even though they were good enough to take a roster spot as a kid.

But the difference is that we don't control where they play in real life. So we can't send a player to the actual minor leagues to develop them. If they are playing and producing in the NHL we see what they do by their production. We don't have salary cap implications or waiver issues when we send players back and forth between the minors and bigs. You really just can't compare it to NHL teams developing young players.

If Jonas keeps going the way that he is - he is going to run into these problems if we don't let him keep guys in the minors. As he is going to be drafting a lot of players (believe like 18 picks so far in next three years) and will eventually be put to this type of decision. Especially, if he's drafting players on teams that rush their prospects and don't give him a heap of time to evaluate his prospects. Some guys do take to their mid 20s to develop. If you don't let younger teams take advantage of being able to keep players minor eligible for the full amount of games - you will be handcuffing people (as the league goes on and more draft years occur).

Again, I've never suggested forcing people to add or drop players. I'd like to see people play their best possible team.... and I'd hope that morally people would attempt to roster as good a team as possible.

For a rebuilding team, you could have about 2 nhl 1sts, 1 2nd and 1 3rd in a given draft year. These aren't low end players being drafted. Not sure why need to enforce this so strongly. ****, Jonas is gonna have 10 nhl 1st rounders in next few years...I wouldn't ask him to have to rush his decisions when he starts to get up against roster limits.

Yeah I wouldn't force anyone to drop a player they think has potential. But I'd hope that Jonas wouldn't be strolling out Scott Gomez when he could be playing Nathan MacKinnon.

 

[Habspatrol]

It's a tough problem to fix. As I said to Jonas, it was kinda obvious at the start of the season that MacKinnon would contend for ROY, whereas I would have assumed Schwartz would spend most of the year in the minors. Pretending they were very similar prospects is kind of silly. Also, as I mentioned several times now, calling up MacKinnon enabled Jonas to add an extra prospect, which does have value to his team. An easy decision to me, since NM was a no-brainer and Jonas had a lot of junk on his active roster.

Regardless, maybe we need a rule in place where players above a certain # (perhaps 0.9 fppg) have to be called up.

But at what point do you think a guy should play Schwartz (or any other good player) when they're one of your top 3 forwards. We have weekly roster changes, not yearly.

 

[Habspatrol]

I apologize to you Soco if you feel I'm singling you out. I specifically never metioned any names throughout this thread and only started replying directly to you about your team when you entered the conversation talking about your team.

 

[soco22]

I apologize to you Soco if you feel I'm singling you out. I specifically never metioned any names throughout this thread and only started replying directly to you about your team when you entered the conversation talking about your team.

Only talked about my own team when there were pages of people discussing it when I entered the thread way back when.

Jonas has been the only one fully trying to single me out that I should lose my pick (ie. self promoting dick request).

Pretty sure if axl wasn't the commish, would have pulled a msun and gotten the **** out of this league.

 

[soco22]

Again, I've never suggested forcing people to add or drop players. I'd like to see people play their best possible team.... and I'd hope that morally people would attempt to roster as good a team as possible.

But my point is that you are only looking short term.

Today, Swartz makes me better - I agree.

But if I can keep a good prospect in the minors for a year, and keep a young player on my roster - for all I know, he gets first line on a shitty team and becomes an impact player for me. Parentau is a decent example of that. That extra year of time to evaluate a player makes a difference. Would say especially with power forward or goalies, as both can be kinda a flick of a switch and they develop into awesomeness. It could make me a better team going forward.

 

[Habspatrol]

Only talked about my own team when there were pages of people discussing it when I entered the thread way back when.

Jonas has been the only one fully trying to single me out that I should lose my pick (ie. self promoting dick request).

Pretty sure if axl wasn't the commish, would have pulled a msun and gotten the **** out of this league.

I can't speak for others but I specifically didn't discuss anyone's team.

 

[Montana]

Let's all argue less, and put our efforts into finding solutions and/or closing loopholes to the suggestions that have been made.

Arguing semantics with each other doesn't get us anywhere.

 

[soco22]

Aside from Jonas making up shit to grasp at making his point that I'm apparently really a #3-7 ranked team...over it. No need to apologize.

 

[Montana]

Jonas, quit being a nincompoop.

 

[Habspatrol]

But my point is that you are only looking short term.

Today, Swartz makes me better - I agree.

But if I can keep a good prospect in the minors for a year, and keep a young player on my roster - for all I know, he gets first line on a shitty team and becomes an impact player for me. Parentau is a decent example of that. That extra year of time to evaluate a player makes a difference. Would say especially with power forward or goalies, as both can be kinda a flick of a switch and they develop into awesomeness. It could make me a better team going forward.

But my point was that you could have Schwartz in your lineup and Colborne in the minors and it would not change your team one iota. You wouldn't have to add or drop anyone... but you'd be playing a better lineup.

Colborne is still going to be minors eligible for this entire season... so you could have had him in the minors all year and Schwartz playing.

 

[MyNameIsJonas]

Jonas, quit being a nincompoop.

no.

 

[soco22]

But my point was that you could have Schwartz in your lineup and Colborne in the minors and it would not change your team one iota. You wouldn't have to add or drop anyone... but you'd be playing a better lineup.

Colborne is still going to be minors eligible for this entire season... so you could have had him in the minors all year and Schwartz playing.

Why won't it let me change him to minors on fantrax (looking on the app)? Do I need to do something so I can? Just have reserve opt.

But can figure that out offline...will message you via PM). Had enough of talking about my team in this thread. Was trying to be general in that discussion.

 

[Habspatrol]

Aside from Jonas making up shit to grasp at making his point that I'm apparently really a #3-7 ranked team...over it. No need to apologize.

At a quick glance, using points per game your team is 8th in points per game. Obviously there's a lot more to that when you consider injuries and other factors. I'd feel confident saying you've got a top 12ish team.

 

[soco22]

At a quick glance, using points per game your team is 8th in points per game. Obviously there's a lot more to that when you consider injuries and other factors. I'd feel confident saying you've got a top 12ish team.

It's like you didn't just read the part of, I'm sick of discussing my team....

Are you really starting this all up again?

 

[MyNameIsJonas]

At a quick glance, using points per game your team is 8th in points per game. Obviously there's a lot more to that when you consider injuries and other factors. I'd feel confident saying you've got a top 12ish team.

Which makes my argument that i have 2 top 5 picks that should be coming my way valid.

 

[MyNameIsJonas]

It's like you didn't just read the part of, I'm sick of discussing my team....

Are you really starting this all up again?

No one cares what you are sick of.

You are the reason this is an issue to begin with.

 

[Habspatrol]

Why won't it let me change him to minors on fantrax (looking on the app)? Do I need to do something so I can? Just have reserve opt.

But can figure that out offline...will message you via PM). Had enough of talking about my team in this thread. Was trying to be general in that discussion.

I'm not sure to tell you the truth. I don't use the app for setting my team up.

I'll drop the discussion about your team specifically. I don't believe you've really broken the rules. At least not recently... and if you did earlier it wasn't necessarily intentional.

 

[axlsalinger]

Only talked about my own team when there were pages of people discussing it when I entered the thread way back when.

Jonas has been the only one fully trying to single me out that I should lose my pick (ie. self promoting dick request).

Pretty sure if axl wasn't the commish, would have pulled a msun and gotten the **** out of this league.

Just a general reminder to everyone to keep it civil. We all acknowledge this is a tough issue to resolve.

About "losing" a pick, I want to be clear about this if I wasn't already. No one is going to lose a pick. The only thing that might happen is a topping-up of points based on minimum GP, which could slightly alter the draft order. As for when to play top prospects, there can't be a penalty because there was no rule in place to be broken. What we need to do is clearly define how to proceed going forward.