hockeylover
Well-known member
Is there a thread that's mostly Leaf fans doing an autopsy of this thing or is every thread now Geeman, WeHave and co. telling us what should be done now?
TML? More like FML, amirite? Yet Another Off Season Thread
- Thread starter MindzEye
- Start date
Preston
MBow30 alt account
I don't think he's a big problem. He's still a good player. But looking forward he's a bigger cap strain than any of their core guys. The contract was designed to win a cup in his first 3-4 years. If he was a UFA this year he wouldn't get 11m. He's overpaid. That doesn't mean bad. He makes the team better. But he's not an efficient use of cap space and that will limit them in addressing some of their needs/wants.
I'm trying to be nice because I know you really really like him. He's a quality 2nd line center or 1st line LW that is maybe worth 7-8m at this stage of his career. Wouldn't it be nice to have a similar caliber player at 7-8m as the 2c with an extra 3-4m in cash? Of course he would be the guy you trade if you could, not Willy.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Yes, I moved the goal posts. By conceding the called back goal for your benefit. Now I’m just relying on the fact that Tavares scored more goals than any other Leaf the past two games. True or false?
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Of course he wouldn’t get $11m four years after he signed it. So what? It is what it is, and what it is is still a PPG center who was our most productive player the last two games.
What’s all this Willy shit being attributed to me? I said repeatedly I wouldn’t make any big move other than trade Muzzin, which is a must move, not a big move.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Have you considered that if he had shown up earlier in the series, game 7 heroics might not have been necessary? You're getting a lot of mileage out of a 2 goal game 6 bud. Even game 5 with his 2pts he was a 20% xG...which I know that you don't care about and frankly don't care that you don't care about. It means that he spent almost the entire game giving up chances instead of getting them. That's bad when the goal is to win hockey games.
On balance the series stats aren't lying about him. He was okay but just okay offensively, and brutal for driving play. Every game of the series matters.
hockeylover
Well-known member
I think ideally you'd move him but coming up with a replacement #2C is a big challenge as well.
Preston
MBow30 alt account
100%. And honestly if they could find a 2c next year I'd be game for that. I think at this stage, as is the case with many former great centers, he's better off on the wing. And he could actually potentially be a ppg guy for real with less responsibility. But you're right, that's easier said than done.
Habsy
Just Walking About Aimlessly
Holl knew right away. Look at his reaction.
It was obvious.
I was also the first to post no goal immediately while you were celebrating. I'm sorry this is a thing for you but all Holl had to do was keep his motion without throwing a hit and it's a good goal.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Have you considered that if Matty showed up later in the series, game 7 itself might not have been necessary?
Habsy
Just Walking About Aimlessly
This akin to "and if my auntie had balls..."
The Leafs played better this series than last year, far better, they were unlucky to draw the defending champs who also happen to be one of the League darlings.
You act like Tampa doesn't have stud players, they most certainly do. Their scrubs were better than yours so yeah, maybe I am seeing that your problem is support players because theirs beat yours while your elite matched theirs.
leafman101
Well-known member
They’re not moving Tavares. It’s too hard. He has to waive, you have to take back bad contracts or retain salary. It wouldn’t make sense.
they should strip the C though. Give it to Matthews or Marner.
they should strip the C though. Give it to Matthews or Marner.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Dude, who cares first of all? Second of all, usually when there’s a penalty, the players stop playing, they don’t continue till a goal is scored. And if someone shoots the puck on a dead play, especially if it goes in, they usually beat the shit out of that player. But you saw it immediately, so again, congrats.
You’re really not all that much better than the guys you keep threatening to ban, you know.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Needed a takeover performance from the guy we say is better than McDavid in just one of the last two games. It’s as simple as that. There’s a million other reasons and excuses we can make. But we needed a goal in each of the last two games. Why are we looking to anyone other than the 60 goal guy for that? Again, I love Matty, and I hate that next year I’ll need to go through this stress again hoping for a different result. But he didn’t produce like an MVP in two elimination games.
Preston
MBow30 alt account
Oh yeah for the record I'm not implying it's possible to trade him. I still want a 2c tho; he doesn't even have to be great. Leafs couldn't even trust JT to drive possession on the second line this year. I do think he'd be a phenomenal winger; he's just too slow to do the C thing these days.
Habsy
Just Walking About Aimlessly
Are you not seeing what teams do to him? Auston creates a shit ton of room. That's where his wingers need to step in. Don't turn on your teams soul. He's it.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
I’m not turning on him. I love him. But it’s not like he scored 3 and I’m asking for 4. I’m asking for 1 in the final five periods from the best scorer in the game. It’s not unreasonable to expect a TD pass from Brady in the last 10 minutes of the Super Bowl. Six years in a row.
hockeylover
Well-known member
Quite slim pickings on UFA for 2C. Any ideas?
Habsy
Just Walking About Aimlessly
I get it. I'm a bills fan with vivid memories of the early 90s. It sucks hard but they're the defending champs man. Your team pushed them hard and they know it. They also know if not for Vasi that could be a very different series. They did everything to neutralize your top six. You neutralized theirs. It was their scrubs that beat you. How do you blame Matthews for that? Serious question?
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
If you move Tavares and Kerfoot, that's 14.5 million dollars to replace a 2C and 2LW. I don't think replacing Tavares is as big a hill to climb as some here think especially when it frees up money to bring a big upgrade at 2LW.
Here's a quick list of comparables:
2 yr splits:
Tavares: 2.15 P/60 54.8% xG
Marchessault: 2.19 P/60 54.3% xG
Hertl: 2.15 P/60 51.4% xG
Danault: 2.08 P/60 56.2%
Reinhart: 2.03 P/60 55.8%
Nelson: 2.00 P/60 49.3%
Kuznetsov: 2.02 P/60 50.0%
Gourde: 1.99 P/60 53.1%
Trochek: 1.93 P/60 54.4%
R Strome: 1.91 P/60 49.2%
Hayes: 1.85 P/60 48.0%
Kadri: 2.47 P/60 54.4%
Miller: 2.19 P/60 48.9%
So a few things that jump out:
- A lot of names on this list have moved recently. Getting someone on here, or in this range of quality, probably isn't as much of a challenge as you'd think.
- The going rate for one of these guys is like 6-8 million.
So yeah, it would require some lifting, but I think a 7 million dollar centre and a 7 million dollar winger is a significantly better cap spend than our current configuration there. I think you can replace all or most of what Tavares does at 5v5 and upgrade monstrously on Kerfoot for the same money.