Toronto @ Chicago - 7 pm on SN

[leaffan2005]

The idea that forward combinations are a debate aftet a 7-6 win is very amusing to me.

When guys like Zach Hyman and Leo Komarov continue to get more ice-time than Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner, I think it is very fair for people to question forward combinations/ice-time. Doesn't mean there aren't other holes with the team, but the lines are the easiest thing to fix as opposed to overhauling our backend which is obviously a lot more problematic.

Also, Sparks sucks. Giving up Mac was a little short-sighted.

 

[Artnes]

This decision was obvious

The gamble might not pay but letting Sparks get picked up for nothing after years of development is poor asset management

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

 

[JackBurton]

Yeah, Sparks is a decade younger and was the best AHl goaltender last season. Tough to give him up for nothing.

 

[mbow30]

When guys like Zach Hyman and Leo Komarov continue to get more ice-time than Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner, I think it is very fair for people to question forward combinations/ice-time. Doesn't mean there aren't other holes with the team, but the lines are the easiest thing to fix as opposed to overhauling our backend which is obviously a lot more problematic.

Also, Sparks sucks. Giving up Mac was a little short-sighted.

Picking one game is selective. Hyman is 5th in es ice time to date.

 

[mbow30]

Every coach has their warts, and don't think anybody is insinuating that he needs to be fired.

But this blind faith in Babcock is really not warranted. What has his track record in the NHL (not international hockey where he gets spoon fed top end players for his 4th line) been over the last 10 years? Don't think it's unfair to point out some pretty significant holes in his coaching thus far as the head boss of the Maple Leafs. He takes a long time to adjust to his pre-determined combinations (i.e. Hyman with Matthews for 2 years, Marner being hinged to Bozak/JVR, Hainsey with MR, etc.). There are also a bunch of players who he clearly does not like (i.e. Kapanen, Leivo, Dermott) and guys he likes despite negative results (i.e. Hyman, Brown, Hainsey). All coaches fall in love with certain guys and over-value veterans to an extent, but he seems to take it to another level.

In general I think he has done a good job here by and large. He is great at developing work ethic and creating a positive environment in the lockerroom. But his tactical decision-making has been questioned for a while here and deservedly so.

You guys complain nonstop - even when they win - and you called for him to be fired.

Meanwhile the “tactical” complaints around here totally overlook actual tactics outside of line combos and ice time distribution.

 

[mbow30]

Sorry - and stretch passes

As for the players he dislikes, I’m not sure where dermott or kapanen come into that picture leivo I’ll give you but Babcock has been very transparent as to why.

 

[trujaysfan]

Didnt get a chance to watch much of the game last night. How many of the goals were sparks fault? The 1st 2 goals looked to be very difficult stops

 

[Artnes]

The rest were not good. Couldn't make a timely save

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

 

[JackBurton]

This is exactly what happened with this team in October of 2017. Same issues. Lots of scoring, bad D and bad goaltending and were still getting wins.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

All this talk about Hyman getting this ice time yesterday, isn’t it just because of disproportionate time on the PK?

 

[zeke]

babcock has worn us down so much that we automatically see kappy filling nylander's spot, instead of the much more obvious idea of a Willy-Auston-kappy line, which would be the fastest line in hockey, and maybe the most skilled, too.

And then Marleau going back with Naz which worked quite well as a very tough usage matchup pairing, whenever Leo wasn't with them.

Kapanen - Matthews - Nylander
Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Marleau - Kadri - Leivo/Johnsson/Brown

 

[zeke]

You guys complain nonstop - even when they win - and you called for him to be fired.

Meanwhile the “tactical” complaints around here totally overlook actual tactics outside of line combos and ice time distribution.

have babcock's leafs overall looked to you like a well organized team, or one getting by on pure talent?

 

[LeafGm]

I dunno, I don't think Babcock "wearing me down" has anything to do with it.

After watching last season, where Kadri spent half a season with either Marleau/Komarov or Komarov/Brown as his linemates, and another half of the season where he had Mitch Marner on his line, I'm of the opinion that you're not anything close to Kadri's maximum value if you worry more about giving him good "matchup wingers" instead of giving him at least one linemate who can help him create offense.

And honestly, when you've got a top-3 of Matthews, Tavares & Kadri, I don't even think you really have to worry about having a "match up line" a whole lot anyway. Just put together three really good, two-way, highly talented lines, and let the other coaches tear their hair out figuring out how they're going to match up against that.

 

[Babcock]

have babcock's leafs overall looked to you like a well organized team, or one getting by on pure talent?

That's where I'm at. I don't think Babcock is a bad coach but the team hasn't been very organized in general with him in charge... And this year they've looked very disorganized so far. Tactics and motivation/culture/good pro speeches are the only things I've always trusted him with and kind of lived with his bizarre player evaluation (which is just downright clearly and obviously poor), but I'm starting to lose some faith in his tactics. We've seen teams with far worst players and defense look way more organized and solid structurally. I'm giving him the year to figure it out because he clearly has a strong enough past to warrant more time.

 

[madvillain]

I dunno, I don't think Babcock "wearing me down" has anything to do with it.

After watching last season, where Kadri spent half a season with either Marleau/Komarov or Komarov/Brown as his linemates, and another half of the season where he had Mitch Marner on his line, I'm of the opinion that you're not anything close to Kadri's maximum value if you worry more about giving him good "matchup wingers" instead of giving him at least one linemate who can help him create offense.

And honestly, when you've got a top-3 of Matthews, Tavares & Kadri, I don't even think you really have to worry about having a "match up line" a whole lot anyway. Just put together three really good, two-way, highly talented lines, and let the other coaches tear their hair out figuring out how they're going to match up against that.

Right, especially since he’s not even using Kadri as a line-matcher. The Kadri line from zeke’s numbers are basically getting the Bozak minutes right now with similar possession numbers but no production to show for it. Give him some talent to work with and the line will start producing.

The thing with Babcock is he can spot the problem but not the solution. If that line continues to struggle, it’s obvious Babcock’s already made up his mind that Leivo is the odd man out when Brown hasn’t played all too well himself.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

It's all Leivo. He drags everyone down. He's not a good player.

Remove him from that line and play Johnsson in his spot and see what happens.

Leivo should be on the fourth line, or on no line at all. To Babs' credit, he's giving him his shot. I wouldn't be surprised if he sat him down before the season and said that he's giving him a chance, so make the most of it. But he's not, and if he continues down this path, he'll be out of the lineup soon enough.

 

[leaffan2005]

You guys complain nonstop - even when they win - and you called for him to be fired.

Meanwhile the “tactical” complaints around here totally overlook actual tactics outside of line combos and ice time distribution.

Yeah I didn't call for him to be fired, not sure where you got that from. I've been critical of him but to the point of canning him? Nope.

Having said that if the team struggles in the playoffs again this year, I'll be leading that brigade.

 

[MindzEye]

What a controversy - coach wants secondary talent to rely more on body positioning, less on speed and improve his work ethic.

Or alternatively, coach wants talented player to play like a grinder to fit his pre determined format for line combinations. Babcock seems intent on putting grinders on every skill line.

 

[MindzEye]

Also, Sparks sucks. Giving up Mac was a little short-sighted.

Sparks might suck at the NHL level, but the decision was the opposite of short sighted. The thought process there is pretty simple. You have a 24-25 yr old goalie that has done everything in the organization that you can possibly ask of them. They've played at an elite level in the AHL and won a title. They need to be given a legit shot at the NHL level, especially when 1) the incumbant is a ~35 yr old journeyman 2) Passable backup goalies hit the waiver wire regularly 3) Most good teams have shit backups anyway.

Here's the backups on the best teams in the East:

Pittsburgh: Casey DeSmith - .921 in small sample last season, with a good AHL pedigree but it already 27 yrs old Didn't make it to the AHL until he was 24 yrs old and put up okay numbers as a 1B over 2 season

Tampa: Louis Domingue - .907 in almost 100 career NHL appearances, was meh at the AHL level as well

Washington: Pheonix Copley - put up a .896 in the AHL last season.

Boston: Jaroslav Halak - Raise your hand if you wanted to pay him 2.75 x 2 to come here.....33 yr old midget in an era of shrinking goalie equipment coming off of a .908 season.

It makes a ton of sense to give the reigning AHL goalie of the year a chance to prove himself in the NHL when the alternative was losing him for nothing.

 

[MindzEye]

It's all Leivo. He drags everyone down. He's not a good player.

Remove him from that line and play Johnsson in his spot and see what happens.

You're really mental about this

CF%

Leivo 51.9%
Brown 47.1%

Yeah, Leivo is the one dragging that line down. I don't even think Leivo has been particularly good either, but he makes good plays all over the ice. You see the offensive zone turnovers when the puck is on his stick (because he has the ability to hold the puck in the offensive zone to try to make plays with it) but don't see the skill necessary to simply be in that position to attempt to make a play as often as Leivo is. Connor Brown on the flip side, rarely is able to hold the puck in the offensive zone if it's not on a rush chance. He's a 180 pound chip and chase player. Because he's rarely in the position to try to make a play within offensive zone possession, he never turns the puck over in the offensive zone (because he's chasing it, and rarely possesses it), you don't equate that as a negative. You're wrong, and it's why you don't "get" Leivo as a hockey player. The smart guy with the glasses who is running the show does get it though.