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Not that you need my approval or anything but ^^^ that is what i'm talking about. Good post.

Kovalchuk was looked at the same way Kessel is being looked at now. A gamebreaker at any moment but without enough supporting cast to get it done. Those Atlanta teams were doodoo. Same thing happening here in Toronto right now. Hockey is a team sport, you need a team full of good players to win. You can't put it all on the back of one player. How much money is he going to want? 6-7 million i suppose. We lost the Clarkson contract, and we have Lupul making 5.25 as well as Bozak.

It can be done and it can make sense. We need a better center to play with Kessel and we need to build up our secondary scoring. Kovalchuk - Kadri - Nylander would be one hell of a line.
 
Leafin' said:
At 31 Jagr looked like a like a loser. Are we really forgetting the selfish looking money grabber Jagr was in his 30's? Washinton? Rangers? What has Jagr won in the last 10 years? Short term deal because he's old. And just as likely to want to come here as Kovalchuk i feel. No more, no less.

Just because you say it doesn't make it any more true. You are a better poster than this LeafGM and i mean it with all sincerity. You used to be able to see all sides to any post. Now its all one way or no way.
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A 31 year-old "loser" with two Stanley Cups, a Olympic Gold medal, five Art Ross trophies, one Hart trophy, two Lester B Pearson trophies and 154 points in 146 playoff games?

Did you manage to type that with a straight face?

As for us disagreeing, it just comes down to a fundamental disagreement between us on how we view this team. You seem to think that if we jettison Lupul & Bozak, get a new coach and trade for a big point-producing veteran like Joe Thornton or Ilya Kovalchuk, we'll be back on the fast track to success. I think the problems with this team run way deeper than that, and I have a very hard time understanding how anyone can see it otherwise, when this group's worsening monumental collapses every year even has life-time hockey people searching for comparables, and finding none.
 
A 31 year-old "loser" with two Stanley Cups, a Olympic Gold medal, five Art Ross trophies, one Hart trophy, two Lester B Pearson trophies and 154 points in 146 playoff games?
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He won cups playing with Mario Lemieux in 1991 and 1992. Won nothing in 23 years since.

Olympic Gold medal playing for an Czech team with Dominik Hasek being named goalie of the tournament when they shut out Russia to win gold.. Art Ross trophies are an individual award that the player with the most points wins. There is no doubting Jagr is and was a great hockey player. I'm just saying he wasn't the "winner" some people think he is.

All i'm saying is that we shouldn't close our minds to acquiring elite talent because we want to "rebuild". The best way to rebuild is to win games. Nothing changes if we keep losing. Better players win games. We need more of those. We have cap space, we have pieces. Get more good pieces. We finally have a goalie that isn't n abortion in net. We have 2 wingers in Kessel and JVR that are worthy top 6 forwards. We have 1 top pairing defender in Phaneuf. The rest are either prospects learning on the job or plugs that we should get rid of. We have a bunch of players cluttering up our team and not performing. Not performing to contract vs not performing are different. Phaneuf may not be performing up to a 7 million salary but he sure as hell is our only reliable defender. How do we realistically expect to win hockey games when we have one good defender.
 
LeafGm said:
Kovalchuk doesn't have to pass through waivers. Because he filed his NHL retirement papers to get out of his previous contract and go to the KHL, he's left with one of three options, unless the NHL and NHLPA get together and decide to make an exception for him.

  1. He can take an entire year off hockey, after which he'd be a UFA and free to sign anywhere without any restrictions. So, if he doesn't have an out in his KHL contract (which has two years remaining on it), that'd mean the earliest he could come back to the NHL would be for the 2018/19 season, when he's 35 years old.

  2. As soon as he can get out of his KHL contract, he can go back to the last NHL team he played for, which would be the New Jersey Devils. They could then keep him, or trade him.

  3. He can apply to be reinstated by the NHL, and become a UFA (again, as soon as he can get out of his KHL contract). For this to happen, all 30 NHL teams would have to approve it. Since Lou Lamoriello is not the type to give up something for nothing, this one is probably unlikely.

Now, for argument's sake, even if he's somehow able to navigate past all of those problems, get out of his KHL contract and become a UFA this summer, he's still likely going to want a large, long-term UFA contract that'll make him the most highly paid, or one of the most highly paid players for whatever team he signs with. In other words, he'll become a cornerstone piece for whatever team signs him.

So, after what we've seen for the past number of years...does anyone honestly think that the best way for us to start this rebuild would be to make a malcontent, 31 year-old, one-dimensional Russian winger who's played for losing teams for all but one season of his 11 year NHL career a cornerstone piece for this franchise?
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Hmmm... interesting, thanks for finding the in-depth info about the re-entry process, wasn't aware of how complex it truly is and looks like I got my info wrong.
 
Pronger84 said:
Return waivers[edit]

"Players who play ice hockey outside of North America during a regular season and who are not on loan from or whose playing rights are not already owned by an NHL club (that is, the player is not already on a team's 90-player reserve list such as a qualified restricted free agent or a draft pick) must also be placed on waivers if they are signed to play in the NHL. If the player is picked up by another NHL club on waivers, the player must be placed on waivers again before a further trade or loan can take place"
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No
 
Leafin' said:
He won cups playing with Mario Lemieux in 1991 and 1992. Won nothing in 23 years since.

Olympic Gold medal playing for an Czech team with Dominik Hasek being named goalie of the tournament when they shut out Russia to win gold.. Art Ross trophies are an individual award that the player with the most points wins. There is no doubting Jagr is and was a great hockey player. I'm just saying he wasn't the "winner" some people think he is.
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This is all pretty ridiculous stuff. There are plenty of players who've won Cups early in their careers and haven't been able to get back, and there are plenty of players that haven't been the best player on their team in a Cup run, while still being an important piece. Neither of these things make you a "loser", particularly when you're a PPG+ player pretty much anytime you're in the playoffs. As for the Olympics, no, he didn't tend goal for his team, but he did lead it in scoring.

Anyways, we're sort of getting side tracked. If you think the best way to build this franchise into a Cup contender is to keep as much of this team's core intact as possible, and to make trades that will improve it as much as possible in the short term, then sure, I can see how signing Jagr wouldn't make sense to you. On the other hand, if what you're hoping for doesn't come to pass, and the Leafs do go for a "scorched earth" rebuild, could you see any downside to signing Jagr in that scenario?

It wouldn't matter if we had to overpay him, because we wouldn't be spending to the cap. It wouldn't matter if next year was finally the year his play took a major nosedive, because we're not going to be very good anyways. But on the upside, our young players would get to experience playing with a generational talent. They'd get to see how hard he has to work to continue playing in the league and produce like a top-6 forward at 43 years of age. And then he'd get you a bunch of nice free assets at the trade deadline. Dallas got a 1st round pick and a prospect for him when they dealt him, and the Devils got 2nd & 3rd round picks when they dealt him this year.

All i'm saying is that we shouldn't close our minds to acquiring elite talent because we want to "rebuild". The best way to rebuild is to win games. Nothing changes if we keep losing. Better players win games. We need more of those. We have cap space, we have pieces. Get more good pieces. We finally have a goalie that isn't n abortion in net. We have 2 wingers in Kessel and JVR that are worthy top 6 forwards. We have 1 top pairing defender in Phaneuf. The rest are either prospects learning on the job or plugs that we should get rid of. We have a bunch of players cluttering up our team and not performing. Not performing to contract vs not performing are different. Phaneuf may not be performing up to a 7 million salary but he sure as hell is our only reliable defender. How do we realistically expect to win hockey games when we have one good defender.
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Again, this is where we just fundamentally disagree. This is not a young and improving hockey team. Most of our best players are in the prime of their careers, or moving past their primes. What you see is what you get. So, I think the surest way to make sure nothing changes is to just hang onto these guys, and keep trying to slap band-aids on this mess, in the vain hope they'll somehow be able to transform from a team that can't even get close to making the playoffs to a team that can contend for the Stanley Cup.
 
It's weird logic....I know Jagr had a few years before leaving for the KHL where he was a bit of an enigma...but those Caps teams he was on weren't very good. The Rangers made the playoffs three years in a row with Jagr after missing it for several years with "great leader" Messier.
 
The Maple Leafs hired Evgeny Namestnikov, a former NHL player and father of current Tampa Bay Lightning forward Vlad, to scout for them while working as an assistant coach for Soshnikov’s Atlant. This went mostly unnoticed in North America, but Russia’s top hockey reporter Alexei Shevchenko, after confirming Namestnikov’s double affiliation, referred to situation as “awkward.”

I think what the Leafs did was an unfair practice and requires an NHL investigation regarding its legality and possibly prohibiting it in the future.

Evgeny Namestnikov entered a contractual relationship with two clubs in two different leagues. Scouts do not only watch players; they also communicate with them. Thus, it’s possible that Namestnikov’s advice to the player he coaches would’ve significantly hurt his employer’s (Atlant) chance of retaining him in favour of his other employer (the Leafs). It sounds like more of a KHL problem, but the same situation could potentially work the other way around: what if a KHL club hired an NHL assistant coach and that’d allow them to gain an edge on the NHL teams in pursuit of players? Such a conflict of interest and informal affiliation with the clubs outside of the NHL-AHL-ECHL system could undermine the integrity of the coaching or front office staff.

Atlant didn’t challenge the move (Soshnikov’s NHL contract kicks in next season but at the time of the signing he was still under a KHL contract where he’ll become a restricted free agent come May 1), so it’s pretty safe to say they didn’t have a problem with their coach working for an NHL team, especially considering Atlant is the most financially-troubled KHL franchise and is rumoured to be leaving the league as soon as this summer.

Namestnikov’s affiliation with the Leafs gave them an unfair advantage over other NHL teams. It’s almost certain that the Leafs were not the only club in pursuit of Soshnikov. However, having their scout embedded in the player’s current team undoubtedly provided them with an inside track to secure Soshnikov’s services.
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http://www.russianmachineneverbreaks.com/2015/03/24/how-is-this-allowed-the-leafs-use-insider-trading-to-sign-free-agent-khl-prospect/

I hope we really exploit this market. So much talent in Russia that hopefully we make the right friends and are able to bring in some of them.
 
Namestnikov’s affiliation with the Leafs gave them an unfair advantage over other NHL teams. It’s almost certain that the Leafs were not the only club in pursuit of Soshnikov. However, having their scout embedded in the player’s current team undoubtedly provided them with an inside track to secure Soshnikov’s services.
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Not sure I get this though - couldn't any other team have hired Namestnikov? Did we hire a guy who couldn't be hired under league rules? It sounds like no.
 
leafman101 said:
I really like Shanahan. He's on the cutting edge of everything, looking for any advantage he can find.
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Hopefully it works in our favor to not discriminate based on size or race. Talent is an important component of a hockey team. I felt under the Burke regime we were very biased in the way we approached our drafts and player acquisitions.

Maybe someone more familiar with the KHL can speak to it but it seems as though a lot of their players are now starting to consider coming back or coming to the NHL. With their currency taking a nosedive in recent years its no wonder. This city has embraced Russian born hockey players in the past. Hope we could be the leading franchise in tapping into that market. With the new generation of elite Russian's such as Teresenko and Kucherov rising up the leaderboards it'd be nice if we could get in on the action.

Any other talent potentially available? We could use all the help we can get.
 
lanny-mcdonald-20100218.jpg


Lanny McDonald has been named chairman of the board at the Hockey Hall of Fame.

A Stanley Cup winner with the Calgary Fames and a 1992 inductee, McDonald replaces the late Pat Quinn.

McDonald has served on the Hall of Fame selection committee for the past nine years.
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link

Perfect!
 
Not just going after Russians, but he targeted a team with serious financial issues in Russia, that was giving an opportunity to young players and hired one of their coaches as a scout to see if anything could help them. Its very creative, and flexing MLSE's financial muscles in an ingenious way.
 
Under Burke/Nonis the boundaries were never pushed. They always stuck to their old, stubborn ways. Shanny is willing to look anywhere for new ways to improve the team.
 
leafman101 said:
Under Burke/Nonis the boundaries were never pushed. They always stuck to their old, stubborn ways. Shanny is willing to look anywhere for new ways to improve the team.
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Ummm... you do realize ownership calls the final shots right? The difference between Burke and Shanahan is that Shanny presented his rebuild case much clearer to MLSE which sold them on it vs Burke who was bluster and couldn't convince them which is rather ironic given Burke was once a lawyer.
 
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