:iagree: Yep, that pretty well sums it up for me as well. In April & May I was so discouraged I went to sharing seats instead of a full season of two seats but all the talk of blowing up the core started bring me back to reality, knowing that wasn't the way to go. I'm still not very happy but at least I can see some progress.
We like our team
- Thread starter dwind
- Start date
Bottom line ... if they add another high energy forward, and I hear they're still talking to Derrick Roy, and add another right sider on D that can help out in a pairing with Hainsey then I do feel like they're putting a respectable group out on the ice. Is it the group I would prefer? No, but I'm not going to jump off a bridge or anything. I feel like Ronnie's got his eggs in the Staals/Semin/Ward basket right now and will likely HAVE to move them during the season if he's going to be able to move them for any kind of return. I see rebuilding the NHL club as at least a 2 season project, so that's not that big a deal for me.
cmaleski2
Well-known member
Its all going to come down to the coaching staff and Ronnie bringing new attitude and commitment levels to all returning players while the newcomers to the organization hopefully bring 4th line hustle and jam. Add in hopefully hungry players like Boychuk who is on his last chance and the kids trying to show something (ie. I expect McGinn at least will get a brief look in camp before being assigned to Charlotte during camp) and you hope that there is a significant change in the way these guys work together and approach the game, leading to better results on the ice.
All we have to cling to right now is hope that Peters can produce more than great Power Point presentations. We won't really have anything concrete to evaluate until mid-late September which seems likes its still an eternity away. From a ticket sale perspective that is just a brutal way to try to spark season ticket sales, just a new head coach, a couple of new 4th liners? Whatever their plans are to try to spark ticket sales they better get moving and be EVERYWHERE the rest of this summer. Even a full marketing blitz at this stage probably not going to help much. They really needed to do a much better job on and off the ice retaining the season ticket holders they had. Once you've allowed those who have committed to season tickets in the past to lose their passion/desire to keep that commitment you are going to be hard pressed to win them back or replace them with newbies. Especially true after missing the playoffs 5 years in a row. The 'premium pricing' advantage that you get as a season ticket holder (doesn't impact you) is not anywhere near enough to stop the season ticket bleeding.
All we have to cling to right now is hope that Peters can produce more than great Power Point presentations. We won't really have anything concrete to evaluate until mid-late September which seems likes its still an eternity away. From a ticket sale perspective that is just a brutal way to try to spark season ticket sales, just a new head coach, a couple of new 4th liners? Whatever their plans are to try to spark ticket sales they better get moving and be EVERYWHERE the rest of this summer. Even a full marketing blitz at this stage probably not going to help much. They really needed to do a much better job on and off the ice retaining the season ticket holders they had. Once you've allowed those who have committed to season tickets in the past to lose their passion/desire to keep that commitment you are going to be hard pressed to win them back or replace them with newbies. Especially true after missing the playoffs 5 years in a row. The 'premium pricing' advantage that you get as a season ticket holder (doesn't impact you) is not anywhere near enough to stop the season ticket bleeding.
CarolinaPen
Active member
Wish I shared to optimism of some here, but I honestly don't see much improvement in way of personnel. It is pretty much the same group as last couple of years with VERY high hopes that a new head coach can turn things around. While there are some bigger players signed, I still think the depth sucks as we have recently been talking about LaRose and Boychuk on the roster. Seems to be the main off-season strategy revolves around "hope and pray" certain things are different this year. There is far too much faith in an unproven head coach at this point to make me a happy.
I guess on the positive side, if you try a new head coach approach enough maybe eventually it works?
I guess on the positive side, if you try a new head coach approach enough maybe eventually it works?
Eric Stratton
Active member
I am in your camp. I don't see what they did to improve their playoff chances, let alone be a cup contender. They have a bar set pretty low for this year which after not making the playoffs in 5 years is not good enough for me.
dwind
Well-known member
Depth refers to the third, fourth and callups that are pretty weak, But, that can be expanded to the first and second lines as well. How many goals did they score?
I guess RF figures that Peters will fix the first two lines with a new process and a few newbies will fix the third and fourth lines plus callups.
Elsker
Well-known member
I was a STH-renewal holdout at the early deadline back in March, when JR was still in place as president with unknown influence on the decision-making process and pretty much every other decision was up in the air.
The small 3% difference in food/beverage credit value (10% vs 7%) between that deadline and the June "you're going to lose your seats" deadline was worth the price to me for a due diligence "look-see" period (Mar. - June) in which the GM and coach changed and other gray issues, like "are you going to blow it all up?" were at least hinted at, if not outright answered.
And, although initially leaning toward NOT renewing after 13 STH seasons, we ended up renewing at the second deadline, with the knowledge that all monies were refundable before the start of the season if any surprises occurred.
What tipped the scale, other than the generally good practice of keeping all options open, was the vague indication from the firing of Ron the Ref and the Canevision head dude that the org seemed to be aware that something needed to change regarding the in-arena fan experience, the hiring of Peters (instead of Samuelson or Dineen), and the moving-on of JR to another org, removing any specter of behind-the-scenes influence.
I'm NOT optimistic at all about this season, fully and realistically committed to this being a multi-season rebuild around a core that is at least mostly in place. But I have decided it's a season worth experiencing in person. After all, I've seen bad seasons before ('02-'03 and '03-'04 standing out, in particular), but they were still entertaining even though the wins were far between.
And what we decided would make this season entertaining was watching Peters put the spurs to our lackadaisical bunch, seeing what changes were made to the in-house experience (although not expecting much), and most importantly, seeing what happens at the deadline.
This is truly a season in which everything has to go perfect for us to have even a modicum of success...and that's unlikely. I am now bought in on the contractual realities that JR has left us with and do understand we need to pump up the value on a few of these assets before attempting to trade them and/or hope the need has increased in other orgs as they experience injuries to key players.
I do understand we have few options other than play the hand that has been dealt to us for this season and try to draw a few new cards along the way for the next season. We have assets to trade, it's a deep draft next summer, and we only need a few more pieces that are not that hard to find...given some budget to work with, that is.
I'm back in for the long haul and I don't expect any overnight miracles. However, please give me a more entertaining product to watch, guys. And some hustle on the ice would be a good start toward providing that entertainment.
To which Ronnie answers in his best player-coach Reggie Dunlop voice: "...power play? Yeah, yeah...we're working on it."
The small 3% difference in food/beverage credit value (10% vs 7%) between that deadline and the June "you're going to lose your seats" deadline was worth the price to me for a due diligence "look-see" period (Mar. - June) in which the GM and coach changed and other gray issues, like "are you going to blow it all up?" were at least hinted at, if not outright answered.
And, although initially leaning toward NOT renewing after 13 STH seasons, we ended up renewing at the second deadline, with the knowledge that all monies were refundable before the start of the season if any surprises occurred.
What tipped the scale, other than the generally good practice of keeping all options open, was the vague indication from the firing of Ron the Ref and the Canevision head dude that the org seemed to be aware that something needed to change regarding the in-arena fan experience, the hiring of Peters (instead of Samuelson or Dineen), and the moving-on of JR to another org, removing any specter of behind-the-scenes influence.
I'm NOT optimistic at all about this season, fully and realistically committed to this being a multi-season rebuild around a core that is at least mostly in place. But I have decided it's a season worth experiencing in person. After all, I've seen bad seasons before ('02-'03 and '03-'04 standing out, in particular), but they were still entertaining even though the wins were far between.
And what we decided would make this season entertaining was watching Peters put the spurs to our lackadaisical bunch, seeing what changes were made to the in-house experience (although not expecting much), and most importantly, seeing what happens at the deadline.
This is truly a season in which everything has to go perfect for us to have even a modicum of success...and that's unlikely. I am now bought in on the contractual realities that JR has left us with and do understand we need to pump up the value on a few of these assets before attempting to trade them and/or hope the need has increased in other orgs as they experience injuries to key players.
I do understand we have few options other than play the hand that has been dealt to us for this season and try to draw a few new cards along the way for the next season. We have assets to trade, it's a deep draft next summer, and we only need a few more pieces that are not that hard to find...given some budget to work with, that is.
I'm back in for the long haul and I don't expect any overnight miracles. However, please give me a more entertaining product to watch, guys. And some hustle on the ice would be a good start toward providing that entertainment.
To which Ronnie answers in his best player-coach Reggie Dunlop voice: "...power play? Yeah, yeah...we're working on it."
We figure we'll be able to get tickets pretty much any time we feel like it, and there are more diverse entertainment options for our money. Like, say, travel. And a lot of the crowd that we would hang out during the playoffs, has moved away, so a lot of the pre-game socializing aspect has...
Wait, did I say that? Playoffs? Playoffs? Oh yeah, that reason.
Wait, did I say that? Playoffs? Playoffs? Oh yeah, that reason.
Just to clarify what some seem to be classifying as my optimism ... I'm NOT optimistic about this team for the 2014-15 season. I don't trust our first and second lines as far as can kick them. Where I differ from most Canes fans I'm talking to right now is in being willing to acknowledge that rebuilding this roster will be a long process that can't really be done in one fell swoop this summer ... largely because of our stupid amount of sea anchor contracts and the general market for players. If we stink this season AND don't start unloading contracts, THEN you'll see me kick into grumpy mode. Until then I'm keeping my powder dry.
SlapShots
Well-known member
I think you and I may be on the wrong page of the same playbook. It's not that many folks don't recognize the rebuild mode we're in and that it won't be overnight. I am willing to accept that. I think what yanks most folks good feeling and optimism is that we've been sold this very same bill of goods for the last five seasons. The messages we have been getting include: we have a great team, just need some tweaks; we had injuries; we are in a partial rebuild mode, we like our core; it's a youth movement; we need veteran leadership, etc... So, from where I sit, we're still with the same core group of players with very little to show for a rebuild. In fact, RF has followed JR's playbook in many ways- brought in a new coach (that really was needed) rather than make a change on the ice. He has tethered himself to Semin, Staal, Staal and Ward. In one off season UFA signing he pulled two of JR's signature moves-- signed Gleason as a recycling project and as a Toronto discard. RF is also talking about another recycle/reclamation project in LaRose. His big free agent day signing-- some guy named Brad Malone no one had ever heard of or given an extra thought. Finally, the rumor that you mentioned, JB, about Derek Roy-- he's somewhere between Skinner and Gerbe in height (5'9").
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A. Roy is a high energy, effective and versatile player, regardless of size. Adding guys like that to augment the bigger guys we've added won't be a problem ... at least not to me. I mean c'mon ... we've all seen Derrick Roy play enough to know what he is. He's not a top 6 guy but he's not some schlub.
B. Here's the rub ... if you're Francis and you're stuck with the big contract guys going into this season, what does it gain you to tell the world that you're only keeping them because you can't dump them? I have heard several people commenting about the same old bill of goods, but what's the alternative? Maybe I'm pragmatic to a fault, but if you're stuck with these guys and they've been under-performing then why not go into the year pushing them to stop under-performing? Maybe these guys we all would like to dump play their way back into good graces ... it's not like that's impossible.
C. This is why I was so hot for Rutherford to move contract at the last deadline. Because blowing it up in the off season always means a fire sale and that's never going to be good for anybody. I feel like Ronnie is playing this smart and still catching flak, but I'm not sure what he's supposed to do about it.
I don't see that RF has done the same things at all where he has had options. His moves have nearly all been making this team bigger and nastier to play against. He hasn't tethered himself to Semin, Staal, Staal and Ward at all. That was already done before he took over. He didn't claim to have a big free agent day. As for the public face to put on it, I don't think you're going to accomplish anything by saying what we might all see as the truth. The problem with this team is that we paid way too much money for Staal, Staal, and Semin, and we wish we could take back the Staal-Sutter trade, and Cam is a boat anchor, so we're pretty much sunk.
Gleason is a recycle, but he's big and plays a gritty game, and in the right role, he's a plus.
I don't see much optimism from anyone. What I do see is an understanding that if we're locked into paying big money for Staal/Staal/Semin&Ward, we're not going to accomplish much of anything unless those guys get it done. If they don't, at our budget, it doesn't really matter who else laces em up. The bulk of our money is being spent there, and there is very little that RF can do about that for this season. He has 2 directions to go. First is a firesale, letting our assets go below what is probably even a fair value, and getting rid of at least some of those 4, but that will require either eating big chunks of their contracts, or packaging them with other assets. So, although that route gets you out from under those contracts, it probably damages your prospects for the next few years while only freeing up enough money to replace one or two of those guys with legit top 2 line players. That leaves option 2. You work on what you can, that doesn't tie you into anything long term, that addresses some of the issues you see with the team, that improves the pipeline for the future, and you bring in a new coach, and you somewhat publicly set expectations for your Captain that last year isn't acceptable, and it's true, you put your hopes for a successful campaign on the combination of the new coach and expectations, and the fact that those guys woefully underperformed last season, and it they do play up to their ability, this team is a playoff team.
I'm not seeing anyone optimistic at all, just looking at the limitations of what can be done, and giving RF the benefit of the doubt given the fact that he has no money to spend and his top talent was locked in when he took over. JR would have brought in 2 marginal aging speedy small forwards and one puck moving D, overpaid for them, and traded future assets for them, and signed them to 3 or 4 year deals with NMCs. And drafted Kapanin.
dwind
Well-known member
That's all because 'We like our team' and it needs only a few minor tweaks and we are off to the cup
Correct JB and why go into trades knowing:
a) you're going to eat a large part of the salary
b) You'll be getting back either the same or lessor at a good price
c) The traded player will play to full potential for someone else
d) The incoming player will fall back to the standards set by the canes.
So, trading a Staal, Skinner, Semin, Tlusty, CWard is a lose lose proposition.
Help me Obi Wan Kanobi-Peters you're my only hope says RF.
Correct JB and why go into trades knowing:
a) you're going to eat a large part of the salary
b) You'll be getting back either the same or lessor at a good price
c) The traded player will play to full potential for someone else
d) The incoming player will fall back to the standards set by the canes.
So, trading a Staal, Skinner, Semin, Tlusty, CWard is a lose lose proposition.
Help me Obi Wan Kanobi-Peters you're my only hope says RF.
JamesNorthern
Active member
Derek Roy, not big. No. But he's creative and a playmaker. Something this team could use(see: zero creativity). His career +/- are pretty even (he had one great year at +37, but every other year floats at or around par.
He can play LW/C. The idea of putting him with Lindholm and Skinner stinks though. I'd want to put him on a line with a couple of bigger guys. Maybe a banger and a scorer.
He can play LW/C. The idea of putting him with Lindholm and Skinner stinks though. I'd want to put him on a line with a couple of bigger guys. Maybe a banger and a scorer.
CanadaCanes
Well-known member
Ronnie's hands have been tied by the poor decisions made by JR, that much is fact! Couple that with the fact that Francis will need a couple of years to clean up all of JR's messes, and what you will have for this upcoming season will be very small improvements at best, which I'm ok with heading towards the best draft in over 10 years! My only worry with this club is the gate and attendance issues that will rear their ugly head this year if this team sits towards the bottom of the Eastern Conference standings. No one likes to see 11K in the building and then having the media bang on the market yet again for not supporting the team.
Francis hired what seems to be a no nonsense coach in Peters, he has the smarts and hockey sense to turn the ship around, but it's going to take time and patience to see any monumental improvement with this team.
CanadaCanes
Well-known member
Liles and that contract is basically unmovable, unless he puts up 40 points from the backline he is useless in your top 4. Harrison should be flipped in a trade for a useful bottom 6 forward with size. Murphy is not ready for a Top 4 pairing. You are correct, Gleason will be overslotted yet again and playing far too many minutes and of course will be exposed by younger, faster skaters.
I think we need to add a right sider. Gleason sucks on toast on his off side and I think anybody with any sense either knows that already or can figure it out after a game or two. This new staff is a lot of things, but dumb doesn't seem one of them.