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What Will Tim L Do?

I agree. Your team isn't in that bad of a shape to be totally blown up. But there definitely needs to be more than a paint job of changes.
 
They don't need to blow anything up. They just aren't as close to being done building as it looked like they were last year.
 
UWHabs said:
I agree. Your team isn't in that bad of a shape to be totally blown up. But there definitely needs to be more than a paint job of changes.
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They need to find their identity and stick to it. If they want to be a puck possesion team then so be it, if they want to be a physical team who plays dump n chase again so be it, but enough with just throwing things on the wall hoping it sticks.

Agreed, there are some good pieces on this team.
 
It isn't a matter of 'finding their identity'. They have an abundance of players who make very bad decisions on the ice.

You can get away with having a few of those guys, especially if their high risk play leads to big production. But right now, they have more players in the top nine who routinely make dumb plays than who don't (Lupul, Raymond, Kadri, JVR, Clarkson, and Kessel isn't immune from offensive-chance boners in transition), and two defensemen (Gardiner, Franson). Plus, a 19 year old and Phaneuf whose play has gone down the toilet over the past month.

The team loves its stretch passes, the forwards all love to just take off as soon as possession turns, and the defense just generally lacks attention to detail.

You aren't going to win with this bunch. Obviously, guys like Kessel, Kadri and Gardiner and high skill and you need those types to win... but you can't have an entire team built like that.

They overpaid for Clarkson because they thought he could be the sort of player who could help with the finer points -- who won't take off before the puck is out of the zone, who can make plays along the boards and who can cycle the puck but unfortunately he has zero hockey sense with the puck. Maybe he'll look better under a different coach (I'm not holding my breath).

But, ultimately, they need to mix in some guys who play NHL hockey. It isn't just about stretch passes and fancy stick work. You need to use your hips, you need to protect the puck and you need to be able to establish territory on the ice, and the Leafs really don't have guys who do these things.
 
I disagree you need to have an identity, every team has one it dictates the strategies out there. Yes your're right too many people who don't use their brains out there, all are guilty of it (some more then others), and I don't get why the forwards cheat and why the D elects to use long bomb passes either, this team is built on speed and they could easily be a detroit style team if the forwards would ever learn to close the cap with the blueliners and keep their legs moving this allows for quicker/shorter passes and a quick/easier transitionn game with not as much time spent in their own end.

I think the blueline needs a massive overhaul too- I'm not suggesting we trade Phaneuf he's our best all around blueliner and nobody can play his minutes but I do think we need to acquire another top pairing guy. You know what? The season's over why not try Rielly out on the top pair with Phaneuf? I'd love to get a look of that, and I think Rielly out there with guys like Kessel/JVR could really help improve our transition game, in the mean time slide Gunnar down to the mid pairing with Gardiner (lets face it he needs an anchor) and have a bottom pairing of Gleason/Franson). In the offseason though for sure we need at least another top4 d who can play reliable 19-22 mins a game without hurting the team.
 
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I mean, how many times have we seen JVR-Kessel-Bozak all end up behind the other team's net and a 3 on 2 going the other way? How many times have we seen Lupul throw blind passes in front of the net? How many times have we seen Kadri get caught flat footed in the neutral zone to create the 3-on-2 against? How many times have we seen Mason Raymond trip guys behind the other team's net on penalty kills? How many times have we seen Phaneuf start hack/chop/crosschecking guys out of frustration in close games? How many times have we seen Franson skate to the wrong corner, or lose his assignment? How many times have we seen Gardiner hang on to the puck for way too long and then either ice it or turn it over in the middle of the neutral zone? How many times have we seen Kadri and Lupul stay on the ice for minute and a half shifts? How many times have we seen JVR try that same stupid play from the side of the net that stopped working after about game 8?

Would a more structured environment help? To some extent. But it won't make players prone to making bad decisions stop making those bad decisions.
 
They are also terrible team in transition. Going both ways.

As you mentioned they just stink at getting out of the zone by constantly looking for the big play. And when it works its purely based off of skill, which is great to have a bunch of skilled guys that can make things happen. But when you combine that skill with responsible hockey thats is how you win.

And defensively there isn't enough backside pressure, or attention to detail in the neutral zone to prevent teams from gaining the zone and getting the puck back. Its just way too easy for teams to keep the puck against the Leafs going through the neutral zone, and as a result they end up scrambling around in their own end. They don't necessarily need to trap, but they pretty much just don't play in that zone. Just a bunch of floating.

Part of it is personnel up the middle and on the blue line. Part of it is Carlyle.
 
Pronger84 said:
I disagree you need to have an identity, every team has one it dictates the strategies out there. Yes your're right too many people who don't use their brains out there, all are guilty of it (some more then others), and I don't get why the forwards cheat and why the D elects to use long bomb passes either, this team is built on speed and they could easily be a detroit style team if the forwards would ever learn to close the cap with the blueliners and keep their legs moving this allows for quicker/shorter passes and a quick/easier transitionn game with not as much time spent in their own end.
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What identity does Detroit have?

What identity does Pittsburgh have?

These aren't aggressive, in your face teams. They're just teams that don't have tons of players who make costly, selfish errors at inopportune times.

It's nice to be aggressive and in your face like the Leafs were last year. It worked for a while. It mainly worked because they fell into the right mix for it to work (a dependable unit that skated well and could maintain possession with Grabo, and a guy who was in everybody's face, pissing everybody off without taking penalties... plus a third line C, playing 3rd/4th line matchups, who has 1st line talent).

But this identity thing is just a cliché/platitude. The Leafs need to look at what is successful in this league... and it's finding guys who don't constantly burn you. Right now the roster is stocked full of those types.
 
mbow30 said:
What identity does Detroit have?

What identity does Pittsburgh have?

These aren't aggressive, in your face teams. They're just teams that don't have tons of players who make costly, selfish errors at inopportune times.

It's nice to be aggressive and in your face like the Leafs were last year. It worked for a while. It mainly worked because they fell into the right mix for it to work (a dependable unit that skated well and could maintain possession with Grabo, and a guy who was in everybody's face, pissing everybody off without taking penalties... plus a third line C, playing 3rd/4th line matchups, who has 1st line talent).

But this identity thing is just a cliché/platitude. The Leafs need to look at what is successful in this league... and it's finding guys who don't constantly burn you. Right now the roster is stocked full of those types.
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Detroit has always been a puck possession team who spends very little time in their own end due to making the right pass and transitioning it up quickly to their forwards, they have been that way for as long as I can remember which is why despite average goaltending they have been able to be successful. I haven't watched many Penguins games so I can't comment on their identity.

I'm with you on this the Leafs need to get rid of the morons on this team, a guy like Clarkson comes to mind for instance whenever his line gets a good rush going he kills it by hogging the puck and just firing a weak/blind shot on net or falling on his ass. There's a lot of the same on this team I just don't want to waste time typing up all the examples, but Nonis in the off season needs to unleash these guys and bring in guys that are smart and hard to play against in all 3 zones.
 
All you are describing is a team that keeps adding smart players who limit their mistakes. You can call it 'identity' if you want but that's just a cliché term. Detroit is successful because of the players Holland keeps bringing in.
 
leafman101 said:
Thats not an identity. Thats just playing hockey.
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Its an identity, if you look at a team like Boston they don't play anything like a Detroit. Boston loves to dump and chase, get in on the forecheck then get the puck back to their blueliners who fire off shots, they also love to wear you down physically.

Some teams in this league have similar styles, others much different ones. I still haven't figured out which style the Leafs want to employ this season though.
 
mbow30 said:
All you are describing is a team that keeps adding smart players who limit their mistakes. You can call it 'identity' if you want but that's just a cliché term. Detroit is successful because of the players Holland keeps bringing in.
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I agree Holland has made a lot of shrewd moves, and one of the things that impresses me about detroit is their draft choices and how they don't rush their propsects into the fold, but still they have always had that puck possession identity out there.
 
Yeah but Boston also has smart players who are good with the puck. That is a common thread with all good teams. Not an identity.
 
And yet, a decade ago Detroit was a physical team that played aggressively and had all sorts of guys who tried to wear down opponents with their forecheck and speed... and relied heavily on their talented defensemen to generate offense.

The Wings 'idnetity' today is much, much different than it was a decade ago.
 
leafman101 said:
Yeah but Boston also has smart players who are good with the puck. That is a common thread with all good teams. Not an identity.
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True, Boston has a lot of smart two way guys, Bergeron and Kreji IMO being 2 of the best 2 way guys in the NHL. At the end of the day though Claude Julien wants to employ a system and the players fall into it, IMO that's an identity.
 
mbow30 said:
And yet, a decade ago Detroit was a physical team that played aggressively and had all sorts of guys who tried to wear down opponents with their forecheck and speed... and relied heavily on their talented defensemen to generate offense.

The Wings 'idnetity' today is much, much different than it was a decade ago.
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I never recall Detroit being an overly physical team, which era was that in? albeit I'll admit I haven't watched them every season. I agree with you though a team's identity will change over the years espically if there's an ownership, GM or coaching change.
 
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