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The 2015 Draft Lottery McEichel sweepstakes thread

I'm all for Marner if Strome and Hannafin are off the board. But with Skinner and Tolhcinsky (and Gerbe), we'd have to relegate to the under 6' league or someone is getting shipped out.
 
Elsker said:
True that there will talented size galore available at our second-rounder slot (#35 overall).

EDIT: Pay no attention to who we are picking here, either first or second. But take a look at the size of prospects available in the second round in this mock draft.

Also, note that Strome is listed at only around 170 lbs, as well as Marner.
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I'm with you Elsker. Would be great to have a pick in the 20-30 spot of the first round. I find this end of the first round projects with a bunch of solid future NHLers, a lot with upside to surpass expectations. Actually between 20-40. There are a bunch of very interesting players, some with talent, size, pedigree, etc.
 
Pretty sure Crouse has the lowest production of any CHL player taken in the top 5 in the last decade.

He's not a top 5 talent to me, but yeah... he's big.
 
Elsker said:
Here's another 5'11" 170-lb right-shot center:

Claude Giroux

The important thing here being they are both: good.at.hockey

I'd take Marner...in a heartbeat.

He's the kind of scorer that could activate our other sometimes-scorers.
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This cannot be stressed enough. What Carolina needs above all other things with this pick is a damned good hockey player. Forget size and position and everything else for awhile. Got get the guy you think is the best freaking hockey player. Sometimes we over-complicate this stuff as fans ... as do scouts and GMs. Which is why you sometimes see "potential" get drafted ahead of just good freaking hockey players.

You bring up Giroux and he's an important illustration. He went 22nd in a loaded draft that produced forwards such as Toews, Kessel, Backstrom and one Jordan Staal. But you want to tell me that the clubs that picked Peter Mueller, Chris Stewart, James Sheppard, Jiri Tlusty and Trevor Lewis don't wish they could have overcome concerns about Giroux's size and pulled that trigger?
 
What's the deal with Crouse? He seems to get a lot of hate, yet ranking services, scouts and hockey pundits have him consistently in the top 5. Going into this season, some sites had him rank higher than Marner.
 
That's part of the "hate." How anyone could rank Crouse and his 51 points in 56 games ahead of Marner who put up 126 points in 63 games is just ridiculous.

Sure he's a big kid... but shouldn't that have helped him to be more dominant in a league against a bunch of much smaller players? If Crouse can't dominate when he's one of the biggest and strongest guys in the league, what are the chances he will be overly effective in the NHL?

Guys like Marner aren't relying on out powering anyone to be effective. I like his chances of being able to succeed in the NHL a lot more than Crouse.
 
This will be an entertaining thread to resurrect in 2 years. They almost always are. I recall how I hoped the Canes would land Nino a few years back. He's doing well now but not the cream of that draft class.
 
I haven't seen any of these players but one reason for ranking a player higher than a player with twice as many points is maybe the player with fewer points is doing the small things like making lanes for a player, freeing pucks, screens and picks. They make other players much better. I'd sure love to have such a player for skinner.
 
Time to start dragging in what we can find on Crouse, but that's what I've seen so far, dwind.

That he's doing all the things you want a player to do without the puck.

And that unlike some of our current big bodies, he seems to understand that he has one. :sarcasm
 
Habspatrol said:
Sure he's a big kid... but shouldn't that have helped him to be more dominant in a league against a bunch of much smaller players? If Crouse can't dominate when he's one of the biggest and strongest guys in the league, what are the chances he will be overly effective in the NHL?
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This. Exactly. If his size is such an asset he should be killing it in juniors. Eric Lindross, who by the way was also 6' 4", put up 149 points in 54 games in his last full season with Oshawa. Im not saying that Crouse has to put up Londross numbers to be good, but Crouse is somewhere around 45th in the OHL in PPG. That just doesn't scream top 5 pick, particularly in this draft.

Size is great. But you've got to do something with it. (I can't believe I just typed that.)
 
jeffbear said:
This cannot be stressed enough. What Carolina needs above all other things with this pick is a damned good hockey player. Forget size and position and everything else for awhile. Got get the guy you think is the best freaking hockey player. Sometimes we over-complicate this stuff as fans ... as do scouts and GMs. Which is why you sometimes see "potential" get drafted ahead of just good freaking hockey players.

You bring up Giroux and he's an important illustration. He went 22nd in a loaded draft that produced forwards such as Toews, Kessel, Backstrom and one Jordan Staal. But you want to tell me that the clubs that picked Peter Mueller, Chris Stewart, James Sheppard, Jiri Tlusty and Trevor Lewis don't wish they could have overcome concerns about Giroux's size and pulled that trigger?
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Couldn't agree more. The Canes are devoid of talent. They have to take the best available player in regards to talent and position, size and everything else shouldn't matter. It isn't like the Canes are trying to plug a few small holes and are worrying about position or body type. The Canes have HUGE gaps all over the roster.
 
dwind said:
I haven't seen any of these players but one reason for ranking a player higher than a player with twice as many points is maybe the player with fewer points is doing the small things like making lanes for a player, freeing pucks, screens and picks. They make other players much better. I'd sure love to have such a player for skinner.
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See... if we're talking 10 more points, or 15 more points or even 20 more points... yeah, maybe you can argue for one player doing the little things better.

But when you're talking SEVENTY FIVE more points!? Like to me, I don't know how I'd make that argument without feeling really silly.

Could a player ever really be good enough at all those "little things" to make up a 75 point difference in the same league?

He's also being outproduced by nearly every single CHL player in the Central Scouting Top 50.
 
He's big... and does a lot of little stuff right. The point being that I (and others) think it's stupid to take good size over elite skill.
 
Every year we see these big kids with questionable skill ranked and or drafted in the first round and they usually bust.
 
dwind said:
Figure out another reason he's one of the top rated?
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I'm calling those ratings into question. I don't see any reason to rank Crouse over Marner/Crouse in the top 5. I don't think "doing the little things" is a valid reason to take the 51 point junior player over the 126 point guy.
 
how many little skilled guys go a long want in the NHL? There is a if difference between the ohl and NHL. A guy that puts up 130 points in the O will be doing very good to get 30 in the N. A big guy that can break loose a skilled player, dig out picks and play all three zones is worth a lot. Depending on the situation he maybe putting up more points than the skilled smaller player.
 
dwind said:
how many little skilled guys go a long want in the NHL? There is a if difference between the ohl and NHL. A guy that puts up 130 points in the O will be doing very good to get 30 in the N.
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If you want I could take the time to compile a list of really good players within an inch or shorter than Marner... if you compile a list of players within an inch or taller than Crouse who scored .91 points per game of less in their draft year who are really good NHLers.

This is a good deal for you cause your job will be much easier as your list will be considerably smaller.

A big guy that can break loose a skilled player, dig out picks and play all three zones is worth a lot. Depending on the situation he maybe putting up more points than the skilled smaller player.
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If the Canes want to draft a big grinder at #5 overall in one of the deepest high end talent drafts in memory then good for them... but I prefer to take those guys in late rounds.
 
dwind said:
A guy that puts up 130 points in the O will be doing very good to get 30 in the N.
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Yeah, like Lindros, Tavares, Spezza, Thornton, Savard, and a kid named McDavid. Lucky to get 30 points. They (+Sam Gagner) are the only 2.0ppg players in the OHL as a 17-year-old in the last 25 years. I'll take my chances on that 6 out of 7. Don't act like the kid is 5' 7"... Just shy of 6' and he's still young enough to grow more.

We had a guy who put up 117 points in the O who struggled to get 30 in the N. But he did it as an overager 20-year-old against kids, and if Chad LaRose is 5'10, I'm 6'10".

Read this on Marner.
In any other draft year, Mitch Marner would be considered a legitimate candidate to be selected first overall. Thanks to the generational talents of Connor McDavid and Jack Eichel, Marner will have to wait a few spots to hear his name called but his accomplishments and on-ice play have certainly warranted a long discussion on whether he should be selected in the third slot. Considered the 3rd overall favourite, Noah Hanifin (Boston College) is a smooth skating intelligent two-way defenseman who could change the landscape of an NHL blue line. Fellow high-scoring OHLer Dylan Strome needs to be considered too as NHL teams seek out that sizeable top-line pivot. Regardless of where Marner, Hanifin and Strome sit on team’s draft lists, scouting teams are going to have some long intense debates on which player best suits their organization.

Marner has been London’s best player for over a year now and is establishing himself as one of the OHL’s all-time best forwards – which is a testament to his superb talents.
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