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OT: American Politics

Which is exactly why we can't take this talk of "leakers" from the administration at face value. There's no benefit for the US security apparatus in leaking intel on the Manchester Attack. Everyone should be very suspect of any leak that pushes us closer to Trump being able to drum up the political support to gut the intel agencies. You can't care about the US intel agencies and not care about Trump right now. The two are too closely interwoven and clearly at odds with each other.

Trump wants this massive house cleaning you're afraid of, and what appears to be random leaking of intel on entirely unrelated items to US security is likely just obfuscation from team Trump. What exactly has been leakier than the White House since January? A few leaks targeted at Trump, or the deluge of embarassing shit that has flowed out of the West Wing?
Fair enough. Although if this stuff was being leaked from the west wing I would almost expect a leak from the west wing saying this is a setup by trump and associates.

That said, if you're right and this stuff is being leaked by the white house then it's a fait accompli, the purge is coming. If it's actually being leaked by people within the security services then in the effort to take down and discredit trump they are going to bring about their own downfall and again, who benefits from that?
 
no goper has the balls to say montana guy should step down after assaulting a reporter. many of them have cheered him for doing it.

it is unreal.

america is dying.
 
Fair enough. Although if this stuff was being leaked from the west wing I would almost expect a leak from the west wing saying this is a setup by trump and associates.

Maybe, but if they're playing this one close for a change

That said, if you're right and this stuff is being leaked by the white house then it's a fait accompli, the purge is coming.

Not necessarily. They'll still need enough support from within the Republican world to get it done.


If it's actually being leaked by people within the security services then in the effort to take down and discredit trump they are going to bring about their own downfall and again, who benefits from that?

Oddly enough, Russia.

Which is why I'm very skeptical of non Trump related items getting leaked right now. I don't see TrumpCo having the ability to outplay any dissident wings of the Intel world in a game of 3D chess, so seeing moves that seem to swing things heavily in Trumps favour makes me skeptical that it's a "legitimate" intelligence leak.
 
no goper has the balls to say montana guy should step down after assaulting a reporter. many of them have cheered him for doing it.

it is unreal.

america is dying.

Yeah, that's ****ing gross. Let's hope the voters of Montana have more sense than the GOP.
 
Nope. Montana voters in line are cheering the assault as well. And usually 2/3 of the montana vote are mailed in already, anyways. Too late for this assault to make a difference in the polls.

and the party will do nothing.
 
Nope. Montana voters in line are cheering the assault as well. And usually 2/3 of the montana vote are mailed in already, anyways. Too late for this assault to make a difference in the polls.

and the party will do nothing.

My favourite saying right now is:

A conservative would let you shit in his mouth if he knew that a liberal had to smell it
 
Why ask Arty when Trump has answered that question for you already:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/03/19/trump-demands-germany-pay-for-us-protection.html

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/04/29/trump-wants-south-korea-to-pay-for-thaad.html


Trump wants US allies to pay for US protection

Which shouldn't shock anyone considering his close ties to Erik Prince

That's a misrepresentation of two separate issues.

One is talking about the costs of American personnel being stationed in the country, which is a legitimate point to bring up, especially if the Germans pay less of the costs than the Japanese and the South Koreans.

The other is about article 5 collective defense, which is to say that if a country isn't paying 2 percent of GDP on defense then the USA isn't helping they out, which, IMHO, is still a legitimate position to take considering the decades of free loading that has been going on.

But to merge the two and say that if you don't pay 2 percent of GDP on defense then pay the USA instead is a massive misrepresentation of what is actually being discussed.
 
That's a misrepresentation of two separate issues.

One is talking about the costs of American personnel being stationed in the country, which is a legitimate point to bring up, especially if the Germans pay less of the costs than the Japanese and the South Koreans.

The other is about article 5 collective defense, which is to say that if a country isn't paying 2 percent of GDP on defense then the USA isn't helping they out, which, IMHO, is still a legitimate position to take considering the decades of free loading that has been going on.

But to merge the two and say that if you don't pay 2 percent of GDP on defense then pay the USA instead is a massive misrepresentation of what is actually being discussed.

Except I never said that, did I?

Donnie wants protection money. SK isn't a NATO member, and spends well over 2% on defence, yet Donnie is trying to extort them for direct payment as well. Donnie doesn't care about the 2%, Donnie cares about making deals and enriching America. He sees military commitments as a way to do that. His approach has been clear from the onset.

I'd also like to repeat something I've said before. Nobody has benefitted more from US world leadership, than the United States. There's a cost to doing business when you want a (mostly) soft power world empire.
 
Except I never said that, did I?

Donnie wants protection money. SK isn't a NATO member, and spends well over 2% on defence, yet Donnie is trying to extort them for direct payment as well. Donnie doesn't care about the 2%, Donnie cares about making deals and enriching America. He sees military commitments as a way to do that. His approach has been clear from the onset.

I'd also like to repeat something I've said before. Nobody has benefitted more from US world leadership, than the United States. There's a cost to doing business when you want a (mostly) soft power world empire.
The cost of having troops in certain countries is a completely legitimate thing to negotiate over.

That expense is payed for by the American taxpayer, and if it's determined that the benefit of having 50 000 soldiers in Germany isn't worst the cost, either have the Germans pay more or send the soldiers home. Those soldiers aren't crucial to the defense of Germany. If it is determined that the benefits of having troops in S Korea or Japan isn't worth the cost then have them pay more or send the soldiers home. And yes yes, people will moan about how the USA benefits from having a military footprint in these nations but at the very same time, you wont see any other country happily filling the void. You wont see French soldiers in Germany, you wont see Canadians in S. Korea, you wont see the Brits in Japan. So the benefits cannot be that great.

It's a legitimate thing to talk about and to negotiate. Someone is paying for having soldiers in the country, if the American taxpayer deems that it's not getting fair value for what it's spending, then they should leave.

Strategically, very little changes. The Russians wont invade Europe because 50 thousand Americans aren't in Germany, the North Koreans aren't going to invade South Korea because the American soldiers are gone and the ...Chinese? Russians? I don't know who plans to attack Japan, but they wont do it if the USA decides to leave.
 
Katherine Faulders @KFaulders
Replying to @KFaulders
A spokesperson for the VP says they "aren't going to comment" on whether Pence still stands by Gianforte endorsement.



mike shit**** pence
 
The cost of having troops in certain countries is a completely legitimate thing to negotiate over.

How much more significant is it in housing them in the US, or wherever else they're likely to disperse them to?

That expense is payed for by the American taxpayer, and if it's determined that the benefit of having 50 000 soldiers in Germany isn't worst the cost, either have the Germans pay more or send the soldiers home. Those soldiers aren't crucial to the defense of Germany.

I'm kind of shocked that you think they're in Germany for the defence of Germany, and not as part of a broader American policy that is tied to their foreign policy. Those troops aren't in Germany to protect Germany, they're in Germany so the US can project power anywhere in the region on short notice. For example, their bases in Germany handled a tremendous amount of the logistics required for the US adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan.


If it is determined that the benefits of having troops in S Korea or Japan isn't worth the cost then have them pay more or send the soldiers home. And yes yes, people will moan about how the USA benefits from having a military footprint in these nations but at the very same time, you wont see any other country happily filling the void. You wont see French soldiers in Germany, you wont see Canadians in S. Korea, you wont see the Brits in Japan. So the benefits cannot be that great.

You seem to want to continuously ignore America's unique standing in the world, that has existed since 1946. You won't see any other country filling that void, because no other country has the capability to fill that void, not because they don't have the desire to fill that void. Once upon a time though, Britain (and to a lesser extent, the other colonial powers) did in fact fill that void. China has started following the US example by developing the ability to project military power far outside of it's borders. It's what all great powers have always done. It's a requirement if you want to build or maintain your hegemony. One has to wonder that if the benefits aren't that great, why has every great power in human history followed more or less the same blueprint? The Assyrians, the Persians, the Macedonians, the Romans, British, etc, etc, etc.

It's a legitimate thing to talk about and to negotiate. Someone is paying for having soldiers in the country, if the American taxpayer deems that it's not getting fair value for what it's spending, then they should leave.

The American taxpayer truly doesn't understand the benefits the US has received from 70 years of empire. Largely because the spoils go to the class of people they tend to approve tax cuts for.

Strategically, very little changes. The Russians wont invade Europe because 50 thousand Americans aren't in Germany, the North Koreans aren't going to invade South Korea because the American soldiers are gone and the ...Chinese? Russians? I don't know who plans to attack Japan, but they wont do it if the USA decides to leave.

What changes is the American ability to influence the decisions of foreign goverments with shows of military force. That's more or less the entire purpose behind the aircraft carrier program, no?
 
Peter Alexander @PeterAlexander
8s
NEW: Source close to Gianforte campaign says it's raised $100K+ online in last 24 hours -- most of it coming after reporter "body slam."




america. so ****ed.
 
Footage showing the leaders caught Trump pushing his way past Prime Minister Dusko Markovic, then confidently adjusting his suit as he emerged in the front of the group, closer to NATO head Jens Stoltenberg.
 
Peter Alexander @PeterAlexander
8s
NEW: Source close to Gianforte campaign says it's raised $100K+ online in last 24 hours -- most of it coming after reporter "body slam."




america. so ****ed.

The Fox News account of what happened is way worse than what we heard earlier --

po7EcYuWp
 
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