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New Canadian Politics Thread

so, I feel like my cynicism has been vindicated.

as per Canadaland, the Globe (Bob Fife - same reporter who broke Chinese election interference) had a story ready to go on this topic. they reached out to PMO for comment. PMO says, 'please delay publishing this for a week for natsec reasons'. Fife isn't willing to delay a week, but gives them I believe 24 hours. in that 24 hours, the PMO scoops the Globe's story, and JT makes his allegations in Parliament.

the suggestion is that JT knew about this intelligence long ago, and the tense conversation he had with Modi earlier in September was about that topic. and also suggested is that JT and the PMO made a tactical decision to sit on this info rather than publicizing it.

the Globe being about to publicize the story simply forced their hand, so they got out ahead of it.
 
manny said:
Went down to check out the anti-trans protests in Vancouver today (my new office overlooks the Vancouver Art Gallery). Lots of police, and probably twice as many counter-protestors as actual protestors. And of course, some of the dumbest looking hicks in the country holding up signs like “our kids will not be groomed”, “f*ck Trudeau”, “democracy not dictatorship”.

They are not sending their best. Or… maybe they are?
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my office also overlooked the Hali protests! me and a colleague went down. likely 4-1 counter-protesters to protesters. most of the protesters were visibly Muslim. we missed the arrest and throwing of things at each other apparently, was pretty tame when we were there.

although we were met with suspicion by some of the counter-protesters and actually corralled by them at one point, which I didn't love.
 
I’m confused how does that support there not being strong evidence behind the accusation?…..to me that seems to imply the complete opposite.
 
Seems like what happened is that Trudeau had been trying to find allied countries willing to publicly back us on these allegations before going public.

But he’s been running into a brick wall because everyone, particularly the Biden administration, have been putting a lot of effort into woo’ing Modi & India for economic reasons, to move him away from Putin and as act as counterweight to China.

Then Trudeau found out the media had the story and were about to break it, so that forced their hand on making a public announcement.

In that scenario, the allegations seem even more credible to me, and it also discredits any suggestion that Trudeau timed these allegations (or made them at all) purely for his own political benefit.
 
Montana said:
I’m confused how does that support there not being strong evidence behind the accusation?…..to me that seems to imply the complete opposite.
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more linked to my initial post on this topic, where I thought the reason for the disclosure was primarily political, rather than any sort of altruism. this reporting confirms that suspicion. I've said all along I thought India was responsible.
 
LeafGm said:
Seems like what happened is that Trudeau had been trying to find allied countries willing to publicly back us on these allegations before going public.

But he’s been running into a brick wall because everyone, particularly the Biden administration, have been putting a lot of effort into woo’ing Modi & India for economic reasons, to move him away from Putin and as act as counterweight to China.

Then they found out the media had the story and we’re about to break it, so that forced their hand on making a public announcement.

In that scenario, the allegations seem even more credible to me, and it also discredits any suggestion that Trudeau timed these allegations (or made them at all) purely for his own political benefit.
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this is a generous to JT interpretation that is plausible.
 
Wayward DP said:
more linked to my initial post on this topic, where I thought the reason for the disclosure was primarily political, rather than any sort of altruism. this reporting confirms that suspicion. I've said all along I thought India was responsible.
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ahhhhhh, that makes more sense.
 
Wayward DP said:
this is a generous to JT interpretation that is plausible.
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It’s not all that generous to JT. Doesn’t really speak well of his or Canada’s standing on the world stage that an authoritarian government murdered a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil and he couldn’t convince any of our supposed democratic allies to even say boo about it.
 
LeafGm said:
It’s not all that generous to JT. Doesn’t really speak well of his or Canada’s standing on the world stage that an authoritarian government murdered a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil and he couldn’t convince any of our supposed democratic allies to even say boo about it.
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timing was particularly brutal for him, in that respect as well.
 
Wayward DP said:
more linked to my initial post on this topic, where I thought the reason for the disclosure was primarily political, rather than any sort of altruism. this reporting confirms that suspicion. I've said all along I thought India was responsible.
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but you thought he was doing it for political points…..whereas this seems to show he did it because his hand was forced and it was going to be reported anyway.

Respectfully, it feels a bit like you’re wanting to find a reason to give him shit over it….rather than there being a very good reason to.
 
LeafGm said:
It’s not all that generous to JT. Doesn’t really speak well of his or Canada’s standing on the world stage that an authoritarian government murdered a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil and he couldn’t convince any of our supposed democratic allies to even say boo about it.
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it portrays him as mostly 'trying to do the right thing'. rather than the cynic's view, which is he determined it was politically expedient to keep the story buried, until his hand was forced.

but yeah, either way, shitty situation for us. and our 'allies' collective responses is also disappointing.
 
Montana said:
but you thought he was doing it for political points…..whereas this seems to show he did it because his hand was forced and it was going to be reported anyway.
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his hand wasn't actually forced. he made a calculation that he should break the news, not the Globe, likely informed by how poorly it went for him the last time the Globe broke natsec news that he was obviously aware of beforehand.
Montana said:
Respectfully, it feels a bit like you’re wanting to find a reason to give him shit over it….rather than there being a very good reason to.
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why didn't he disclose it as soon as he had the intelligence?
 
Wayward DP said:
his hand wasn't actually forced. he made a calculation that he should break the news, not the Globe, likely informed by how poorly it went for him the last time the Globe broke natsec news that he was obviously aware of beforehand.
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that sure sounds like forced to me….with only semantics delineating between forced/not forced.

Wayward DP said:
why didn't he disclose it as soon as he had the intelligence?
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Could have wanted to wait for more intelligence to come in, wanted CSIS to further corroborate what they learned with other agencies….plethora of potentially logical reasons.
 
I read that he went public with the allegation so that it could be discussed openly with other countries during the annual United Nations meeting this week.
 
Montana said:
that sure sounds like forced to me….with only semantics delineating between forced/not forced.
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nothing forced him. he chose to disclose.

by this logic, he was also 'forced' to disclose Chinese interference when the Globe contacted his office about the story, yet he... didn't... (and paid a big political price)
Montana said:
Could have wanted to wait for more intelligence to come in, wanted CSIS to further corroborate what they learned with other agencies….plethora of potentially logical reasons.
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for sure. we're all speculating. I'm just cynical of his intentions being anything other than what is most politically expedient. I can think that and still be horrified and upset by this gross invasion of our sovereignty by Modi and India.
 
Wayward DP said:
nothing forced him. he chose to disclose.

by this logic, he was also 'forced' to disclose Chinese interference when the Globe contacted his office about the story, yet he... didn't... (and paid a big political price)
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Within political circles it’s collectively recognized as being forced to disclose something before you wanted to, when you get word a news agency is going to break it otherwise.

again, just semantics differentiating between the two tho. Especially when the original argument was he was just doing it for optics & political points.

Wayward DP said:
for sure. we're all speculating. I'm just cynical of his intentions being anything other than what is most politically expedient. I can think that and still be horrified and upset by this gross invasion of our sovereignty by Modi and India.
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100%

…and there’s plenty of value and justification for cynicism towards politicians. I think sometimes people forget that many are also trying to do what they think is best.

Do they have to doublespeak and have opinions they share behind closed doors, and ones they say publically, or course….do they have to cut some pretty sketchy deals for corporations, and big oil etc to help keep the political machine going, absolutely….backs have to be slapped, unfortunately.

….but I think for many, there’s an earnest attempt to accomplish what’s most beneficial for the country, while also being on the right side of history and helping as many citizens as they can. And because of all the lying & corruption, I think sometimes people allow their cynicism to undercut when leaders are just doing what they think is right.


maybe I’m naive tho.
 
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