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Actually, looking at that summary there are some similarities to the greenbelt situation. Developer owned a piece of land which wasn’t zoned to build on, the municipality didn’t actually expropriate it, but turned part of it into a park, developer sued for $120M.

So it’s possible that Ford might get the political win of “listening to the folks”, while his developer buddies still get paid, without having to actually do any work or creating any housing.

And if Ford is still Premier while it’s in court, he could actually be in the position of instructing his AG to settle with the developers, maybe at a very high number.

If that’s how they gamed it out… That’s some next level corruption right there. Impressive stuff.
 



I can assure you that the decision for the prime minister to go out … was done with the full consultation of the appropriate agencies involved.

And, again, we would prefer not to have to come out, but because if there were stories that were going to be coming out, it's important for the prime minister to make it very clear what is taking place based on, you know, the amount of information that could be provided.

Making sure to give calm to Canadians is an absolute priority for us. And this is one of the reasons why the prime minister went out, is to give confidence and calm to Canadians — and just in case somebody is trying to use certain information to divide Canadians, which we have seen many times in the past.
 
They’re not worried about their kids learning about sex.


They’re worried about little girls being empowered by learning about consent.

They’re worried about little girls learning what grooming is, and the impact that’ll have on the men in positions of power in fundamentalist religious communities.

They’re worried about kids having the vocabulary and knowledge to recognize and articulate when and how they’re being abused.

They’re worried about kids learning that it’s ok to be gay, and that they shouldn’t deal with those feelings if they have them themselves by burying them under a mountain of shame & self-loathing and by trying to pray the gay away.

They’re afraid of kids learning that trans people exist and that they should be allowed to exist.


Religious social conservatives are a plague on human civilization.
 
They’re not worried about their kids learning about sex.


They’re worried about little girls being empowered by learning about consent.

They’re worried about little girls learning what grooming is, and the impact that’ll have on the men in positions of power in fundamentalist religious communities.

They’re worried about kids having the vocabulary and knowledge to recognize and articulate when and how they’re being abused.


Jesus, that’s one dark take. 😆
 
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I’ve always just chalked it up to a story as old as time, people are scared of change….growing up they learned things were one way, and now believe if that is changed it fucks up the fabric of what they believe society to be.

blissfully ignorant to the fact their norm going up, was the previous generations version of scary progressive change.
 
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I’ve always just chalked it up to a story as old as time, people are scared of change….they learned things were one way, and then believe if that changes it fucks everything up.

blissfully ignorant to the fact their norm going up, was the previous generations version of scary progressive change.

I know plenty of loving parents who are pretty open and tolerant, and are either agnostic or atheist, who are seriously concerned or outright against what's being taught in schools in relation to gender. My kid isn't near school age yet so I don't know much about it, but from what I gather it's changed pretty quickly and they're scared of how its going to influence their kids decisions and what kind of control the parents ultimately have.

I will say that I struggle with the idea of a adolescence aged kid making a permanent, life altering decision like that. Its a confusing time in your life that can be really rough on some kids, and I think the fear is kids who don't fit in or are depressed or bullied etc. etc. will look at this as a big change and a "way out" of the perceived hell they are in.

But I'm sure the science behind it is there and its all good and I think its just part of moving forward. Like I said I don't know a ton about it. But I can cut people some slack for being worried about what they feel is a significant change is going to affect their kids. Not everybody in the camp concerned about what's being taught in schools is a monster.
 
I still don't really think I've seen any examples of what they're being taught that it doesn't come out later as having been exaggerated or outright lied about so far. I don't have any kids either so... open to hearing about specific examples?

My parents were loving but also total shit when it came to talking about anything considered taboo or sexual with me so when I hear parents say everything should be left up to what parents teach their kids, well... I'm not entirely sure that's great. Basically learned everything on my own, from other kids, or in school and very vividly remember being taught about the concept of consent in school as early as Grade 1.
 
I know plenty of loving parents who are pretty open and tolerant, and are either agnostic or atheist, who are seriously concerned or outright against what's being taught in schools in relation to gender. My kid isn't near school age yet so I don't know much about it, but from what I gather it's changed pretty quickly and they're scared of how its going to influence their kids decisions and what kind of control the parents ultimately have.

100%, liberals definitely aren’t immune from being scared of change either….and I’ve tried to become a bit of a conduit for information on these topics for friends with young kids, in part because some of it runs contrary to their instinctual “common sense” instant take on a subject…..so it’s worth doing the research to have the proper response to many of their issues.

I will say that I struggle with the idea of a adolescence aged kid making a permanent, life altering decision like that.

I’ve found this to be a bit of a phoney boogeyman….from what I’ve read it sure seems like any parents of kids considering any kind of transition, are inundated with information on the topic, questions to determine if it’s a phase, a antidote to something else, or an earnest representation of who they feel they are inside.

A teen at the age of puberty is either going to receive testosterone that alters they physiology (naturally or synthetically)…..or they’re going to have that testosterone blocked (either by nature or by science)……if parents believe it’s in their child’s best interest to do the opposite of what their teen believes represents them best, that feels a bit odd to me.

should we discuss what age blockers can first be taken….study the impacts of reversing that if they changed their mind…..and have age restrictions before anything more drastic like surgeries can take place? Sure.

…..but not even teaching kids that this exists. Doesn’t seem help
Its a confusing time in your life that can be really rough on some kids, and I think the fear is kids who don't fit in or are depressed or bullied etc. etc. will look at this as a big change and a "way out" of the perceived hell they are in.

I was a white, middle class, hetero, handsome, tall, funny devil, who had a great circle of friends, and could drift from one social circle within school to another pretty easily….couldn’t have had the deck stacked more in my favour growing up…

…and my memories of school are absolute hell, as I was a anxious mess internally 24/7/365…85% panic attack the whole time, when I wasn’t drunk or stoned……so I can’t even fathom the concept of either having feelings for the same sex, and having to hide it because of how it was viewed back then, or believing internally with every fiber of my being, and not being able to even conceive of voicing that to anyone because of how depraved something like that was portrayed in culture.

So I’m far more concerned about the kids who have those feelings and are being denied being their true selves, than I am the infinitesimally smaller subgroup that might do it as part of a phase or “a way out”…..to me that’s a parents job to discuss, decipher, and help them through in the odd case it isn’t genuine.

….but given that parents are so concerned with kids making a false choice, I can’t imagine that never being addressed on the front end, before any further wteps

But I'm sure the science behind it is there and its all good and I think its just part of moving forward. Like I said I don't know a ton about it. But I can cut people some slack for being worried about what they feel is a significant change is going to affect their kids. Not everybody in the camp concerned about what's being taught in schools is a monster.

I really think it’s just something that runs counter to what 90% of people 35 and up, have as part of their common sense heuristics that worked perfectly fine for us for the first 30 years….but now require some additional education to adjust and improve those prior heuristics.

…..I believe pretty strongly that nearly every argument people have against trans folk, jives 1 to 1 with things people were saying about mixed race couples at one point, or same sex couples a couple generations later….it’s all just excuses for why they don’t like thing changing from how they learned they were “supposed” to be.

Think it’s worth doing the effort to educate oneself as much as possible on it all tho, to at minimum not mistakenly become the modern version one day of the old bigot/racist at the family dinner table that’s saying “it’s just a joke” and every kid is mortified to be related to.
 
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I still don't really think I've seen any examples of what they're being taught that it doesn't come out later as having been exaggerated or outright lied about so far. I don't have any kids either so... open to hearing about specific examples?


ding ding ding.


they talk as if six year olds are all being pumped with hormones and having transition surgeries….because a parent had the nerve to be fine letting a kid wear a dress.
 
My parents were loving but also total shit when it came to talking about anything considered taboo or sexual with me so when I hear parents say everything should be left up to what parents teach their kids, well... I'm not entirely sure that's great. Basically learned everything on my own, from other kids, or in school

same.

my dad died when I 10, and he’d have otherwise been the one walking me through it all…instead everything I learned was through school and friends shooting the shit….friends with older brothers FTW.

0% at home.

and very vividly remember being taught about the concept of consent in school as early as Grade 1.

that’s kinda amazing.
 
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All good points by both of you. My post was mainly in response to LGM's, and don't think painting any concerned parents or those who are caught up in the hysteria with the same brush as groomers and abusers is productive. Although I don't think that's really what he meant - those pushing the hysteria are a different story.

I feel like Sex Ed just finally became accepted as clearly a positive thing, and now Gender is the next hurdle. As Montana said, story as old as time.

Honestly I've been putting off doing any research until my kid is about to hit school because I'm already fucking exhausted with the topic and the hysteria. Shit comes up around dinner tables, bon fires, casual beers. Kill me.
 
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Permission to speak inappropriately:

The biggest issue not being discussed on the topic of trans teens…..is all those poor feminine boys, or manly women who are perfectly straight but will forever be asked about their transition the rest of their lives….😆
 
All good points. My post was mainly in response to LGM's, and don't think painting any concerned parents or those who are caught up in the hysteria with the same brush as groomers and abusers is productive.

100%.

Although I don't think that's really what he meant - those pushing the hysteria are a different story.

I feel like Sex Ed just finally became accepted as clearly a positive thing, and now Gender is the next hurdle. As Montana said, story as old as time.

Honestly I've been putting off doing any research until my kid is about to hit school because I'm already fucking exhausted with the topic and the hyrteria. Shit comes up around dinner tables, bon fires, casual beers. Kill me.

Yeah as much as I try to educate myself so I have answers for friends when they bring up some angle of it they take issue with….I’ve still been too lazy to read a single book on the topic.

to @hockeylover ’s point, the biggest issues people seem to have, is often with shit that isn’t even true.

Was talking with an ex-gf here on PEI when I got back, who has a couple girls in school….and she told me with 100% certainty that it’s got to the point where they have cat little boxes in class, for kids who identify as cats……had to get multiple articles to convince her that this was a completely fabricated hoax. 🤦🏻‍♂️
 
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