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Habs trade PK Subban to Predators for Shea Weber

Habs4Life said:
Berkshire is totally trying to push his agenda here

1st off the "definition" of defence seems to be lost on anyone who thinks that Karlsson is the "BEST" at it.

2nd, The metrics used to measure each guy are different.

And I will just pick a guy like Hedman as an example... Take a look at this:

http://dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_...93&compare[]=888&sent=go&games=2015-2016:R:99

Now tell me that Hedman is the #4 best D-man in the NHL and Weber IS NOT IN THE TOP 20 when:

Weber scores more
Weber gets more points
Weber produces more on the PP
Weber plays more PK time
Weber has more ice time
Weber has less giveaways
Weber has more hits (And less PIM's doing it!)
Weber blocks more shots
Weber takes more shots
Weber has almost double Hedmans shooting %

Fancy stats are fun. But it's ridiculous to ignore the forest for the trees.
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Not arguing the player comparison, but a few of those... namely hits and giveaways are simply not reliable stats. Using them doesn't help the argument.

When the habs have more than double the giveaways at home vs on the road, its just not a reliable stat. Same thing is seen for other teams (or the opposite for some teams) and those stats. They are not consistent rink to rink

On top of that, even if it is consistent, having more hits isn't necessarily a good thing. It could show you have the puck less.
 
We're 3 months removed from the trade....

I'm happy with Weber....if Price says we are better with Weber, then I trust his jugement.

If Price didn't think we were, then he wouldn't go out of his way to make the statement publicly....Price never makes big statements publicly.
 
Rolex said:
We're 3 months removed from the trade....

I'm happy with Weber....if Price says we are better with Weber, then I trust his jugement.

If Price didn't think we were, then he wouldn't go out of his way to make the statement publicly....Price never makes big statements publicly.
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We keep hearing these statements from players, but Elliotte Friedmann said it. The rest of the league, and Price especially, are not immune to what is being said in the media. They have heard all the Subban/Weber comparisions. They heard the Habs former analytics guy said that Subban was better publically. They've heard of or about the criticism. In some ways they are going out of their way to stand up for Weber cause they feel he's a good guy and its not fair to him.
 
I am a big P.K fan, but other than organization's hate for these kind of characters(since long time), I don't see what is the reason P.K still keep talking about this trade, move forward man and focus on your new team. Is all Ok to blame organization for the reason of this trade, but P.K also need to grow up.

I mean our management can have misjudgment and agenda against him, how about Team Canada?
 
Habs-25 said:
I am a big P.K fan, but other than organization's hate for these kind of characters(since long time), I don't see what is the reason P.K still keep talking about this trade, move forward man and focus on your new team. Is all Ok to blame organization for the reason of this trade, but P.K also need to grow up.

I mean our management can have misjudgment and agenda against him, how about Team Canada?
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Obviously PK is still upset about being traded. He was a larger than life figure in Montreal, and now in Nashville, not so much. The hockey fans in the U.S. outside of Minnesota and Boston are the people who go to the games and that's about it.
 
Habs-25 said:
I am a big P.K fan, but other than organization's hate for these kind of characters(since long time), I don't see what is the reason P.K still keep talking about this trade, move forward man and focus on your new team. Is all Ok to blame organization for the reason of this trade, but P.K also need to grow up.

I mean our management can have misjudgment and agenda against him, how about Team Canada?
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He's probably being asked about the trade a lot.

I don't see what is immature about saying that he felt it was a "personality trade." He's not bashing anyone... he's just saying what everyone else already knows and what analysts have been saying.
 
If I were him, I would be upset too.

By signing the large contract, he gave up being a UFA after arbitration as he wanted to remain a Hab. Nero saw things differently and got rid of him. It showed a lot of ingratitude on the organization's behalf. The fans were solidly behind Subban but the organization treated him like crap despite all he did for the team, the organization and the city. I am pretty sure if he was a UFA, he wouldn't have chosen Nashville but now he is stuck there.

The smear campaign from the 7th floor and the French press since the trade certainly doesn't help the situation. Hell they even smeared his donation to the hospital whining it didn't go through the team's foundation.

Once he scores against us, he will get over it.
 
Krustchev said:
Obviously PK is still upset about being traded. He was a larger than life figure in Montreal, and now in Nashville, not so much. The hockey fans in the U.S. outside of Minnesota and Boston are the people who go to the games and that's about it.
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Well add Detroit also, which has lots of die hard wings. But yes from MTL and center of attention to NASH he should feel depress.
 
The only thing which still bother me about this trade is the age difference, i still can't get over it, 4 years is huge, unless Weber keeps it up until late 30s
 
GrandWazoo said:
Hopefully Weber will slowly decline like Chara.
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Good point , Chara at nearly 40 is a top 4 on every team in this league and was elite til 35 . His game was never built on speed but smarts and using his size .

Weber should be fine for 4-5 years . He is also what 235 pounds , he could drop 10-15 to help with mobility with probably minimal effect on his physical game .
 
BKerr said:
Not arguing the player comparison, but a few of those... namely hits and giveaways are simply not reliable stats. Using them doesn't help the argument.

When the habs have more than double the giveaways at home vs on the road, its just not a reliable stat. Same thing is seen for other teams (or the opposite for some teams) and those stats. They are not consistent rink to rink

On top of that, even if it is consistent, having more hits isn't necessarily a good thing. It could show you have the puck less.
Click to expand...

That's right - stats are only reliable if they confirm that Subban is better.
 
BKerr said:
We keep hearing these statements from players, but Elliotte Friedmann said it. The rest of the league, and Price especially, are not immune to what is being said in the media. They have heard all the Subban/Weber comparisions. They heard the Habs former analytics guy said that Subban was better publically. They've heard of or about the criticism. In some ways they are going out of their way to stand up for Weber cause they feel he's a good guy and its not fair to him.
Click to expand...

That's right - NHL players have collectively decided to come to Weber's rescue.
 
Demon Blond said:
That's right - stats are only reliable if they confirm that Subban is better.
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So you believe that the entire habs team has twice as many giveaways at home that they do on the road.

Oh and their opponents also have more giveaways in the bell centre than they do in other rinks.

Explain why games in montreal have double the nhl average for giveaways
 
Krustchev said:
Obviously PK is still upset about being traded. He was a larger than life figure in Montreal, and now in Nashville, not so much. The hockey fans in the U.S. outside of Minnesota and Boston are the people who go to the games and that's about it.
Click to expand...

Yeah if they really wanted to punish him for being larger than the team, the Habs couldn't have found a better market to bury him in.
 
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