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Leaf Rumours

Worst. argument. ever.

You don't have anything to hang on to on this one. If you are not as good as Karlsson, you are not a #1. KB-level ignorance.
 
Offensively he was 10th or so. But there were like six or seven guys that had just one point less than him.

So, you could argue that plus or minus a point or two, there were around 17 or so guys who were just about equal to or better than him offensively.

And then there's defense. Is he top 10 in defense?

Again, I'm repeating that I like the guy, I think he's a good player and we should resign him. But he isn't incredible. He's good.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
He was what, 8th overall in scoring? I'd say there's less than 7 teams.
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Very few teams would take guys like Kessel over E. Staal and Ryan Getzlaf to name but two forwards who he outscored. There's many teams where he wouldn't be the best forward:

Anaheim: Getzlaf
Boston: Bergeron
Buffalo: Vanek
Calgary: Cammalleri
Carolina: E. Staal
Chicago: Kane/Toews
Colorado: Duchene
Columbus: Prospal
Dallas: Benn
Detroit: Datsyuk/Zetterberg
Edmonton: Hall
Florida: Huberdeau
Los Angeles: Kopitar
Minnesota: Parise
Montreal: Pacioretty
Nashville: Legwand
New Jersey: Elias
New York Islanders: Tavares
New York Rangers: Gaborik
Ottawa: Spezza
Philadelphia: Giroux
Phoenix: Vrbata
Pittsburgh: Crosby/Malkin
San Jose: Thornton/Marleau
St. Louis: Stewart/Backes
Tampa Bay: Stamkos/St. Louis
Toronto: Kessel
Vancouver: D. Sedin/H. Sedin
Washington: Ovechkin
Winnipeg: Kane/Ladd/Wheeler

Kessel would definitively be the best forward on Calgary, Colorado, Columbus, Dallas, Florida, Montreal, Nashville, New Jersey, Phoenix, St. Louis, and Winnipeg. That's 11/30 teams.

You can make an argument that he would be the best forward on Boston, Buffalo, Edmonton, Minnesota, the Rangers, and possibly Toronto (Lupul is arguably as effective when healthy) and San Jose (due primarily to age). That's another seven teams out of thirty. That's 18/30 teams.

It's hard to say that he would be the best forward on the twelve remaining teams (listed in bold).
 
They're both in the top ten or so of their respective positions, and one isn't clearly better relative to their compatriots than the other one. I think Phaneuf is slightly more valuable as a defender than Kessel a forward however.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
A little less intellectual dishonesty please.

How many of those forwards would you trade Kessel for, given their ages?
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Getzlaf, Eric Staal, Kane, Toews, Kopitar, Tavares, possibly Spezza (scratch him for the list if his back-injury is chronic), Giroux, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, and Ovechkin.

That's between twelve and thirteen names depending on how you look at it. A few of them might even be a wash but I think it's appropriate to say that Phil is a borderline top ten forward.

Of course, nine of those guys are centres and that is a position of significantly higher value, and in which getting premium production is a rarity. As a a winger Kessel fares much more favourably.
 
Phaneuf is as good as Kessel? Did Kessel throw away game seven? Regular season I hope you guys realize is important, but the playoffs is where a real player is determined. Phaneuf, showed, why, he is distrusted throughout the league in game seven. Kessel did not.

Phaneuf has all the tools, although I am not overly excited about his skating, but sometimes, he just totally leaves the game in a fog, WHILE HE IS STILL ON THE ICE. He sure picked a bad time to do it in game seven. He jumped into the body of Luke Schenn for 2:30 minutes. And he was our captain.
 
I want you to exert yourself for three minutes wearing 30 pounds of gear and wearing lead weights around your feet... after doing an intense thirty minute cardio session beforehand, particularly focused on explosive stops and starts.
 
for 2:30 minutes
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The only part of his post that matters. Dion was put into a position where he was asked to be ****ing superman. A 2:30 shift at the end of game 7 is being put in an impossible position by your coach. The fault there (as a bunch of us said when the shock wore off) was in Randy not trusting Jake-Cody down the stretch and overplaying Dion-Gunnar horrifically.
 
A simple timeout at one point may have prevented the problem in the first place. Anyways too late now.

Is there a deadline for the arbitrator to make a decision in the Fraser case?
 
JaysCyYoung said:
I want you to exert yourself for three minutes wearing 30 pounds of gear and wearing lead weights around your feet... after doing an intense thirty minute cardio session beforehand, particularly focused on explosive stops and starts.
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Chara is an old man compared to Phaneuf, and not only did he answer the bell, he RANG IT. Of course you get tired. I played weekend tennis tournaments till three years ago, and actually played against an ex toronto maple leaf from time to time who played our tournaments. Forget his name, he was the guy who was accused of sleeping with Roger Neilson, that defensive player Neilson allowed on the team that no one could figure out how he got a place on the team.

He agreed with me, that playing 18 hours of tennis compressed into a weekend, was 50 times more difficult than anything you would ever experience in the NHL.

NHL players are coddled guys. CHARA is a BEASt. Phaneuf, is a semi-tough, semi-BEAST. When he is on, he is a top four Norris Trophy candidate, when he shuts off, he is Luke Schenn lite. Its what IT is. And he shut off at 4-2. He had nothing to contribute.

And lets possibly blame what should be blamed. A coach(Carlyle) who didn't acutely recognize, Phaneuf was dead on his feet.
 
Just saw M.E.'s post above, YES, agree totally. A coach should recognize who has energy left and who doesn't. Throw out stats at that point, go with WHO has energy and sit who doesn't. Not rocket science.
 
Chara was absolutely horrible in that series against Toronto. Truly horrible. He looked nothing like the 2011 version that carried Boston throughout the post-season along with Thomas.
 
Chara always makes mistakes. Everyone does. Lidstrom did, Orr did. Toronto is just ridiculous when it comes to the microscope they put on dmen.

And to hear *******s like Colangalo and Burke say Toronto is hard on coaches and managers but not players is just ridiculous. Phaneuf is on the ice for one goal against, or Kessel doesn't score for two games and they suck.
 
JaysCyYoung said:
Chara was absolutely horrible in that series against Toronto. Truly horrible. He looked nothing like the 2011 version that carried Boston throughout the post-season along with Thomas.
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AGREE AGAIN. But, he and Lucic emerged out of their sleep, and possible overconfidence, and stood like trees amongst weeds in the last ten minutes. What the Leafs lacked in the last ten minutes is someone who could answer the bell to counter the sudden swelling of Chara, Horton and Lucic. And we DIDN'T have one player who could do it.

And Carlyle not calling ANY timeouts, well, that just boggles my offseason mind.
 
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organicsteroid said:
And Carlyle not calling ANY timeouts, well, that just boggles my offseason mind.
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It was utterly shocking that Carlyle didn't call a single time-out. He absolutely should have once Boston began to turn the momentum around with their second goal and they were pressing hard in the final few minutes.

At 4-3 though there was absolutely no excuse not to call one.
 
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