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Leafs' Prospect/Marlies Discussion Thread!

Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Yeah, trade deadline rentals are not great business. But I think zeke is referring to going outside the organization for long term help.

Chicago signed Hossa and Campbell
LA traded for Carter and Richards (Schenn, Johnson and a couple picks)
Pens traded for Kessel (Kapanen, 1st)
Boston signed Chara
Anaheim signed Niedermayer and Selanne and traded for Pronger (Lupul, Smid and 1st)

Basically all cup winners have gone outside the organization to obtain the "final piece". The Leafs shouldn't be trading futures for Nash or Green at the deadline. But if an opportunity to get an elite, player in their prime like Tavares, McDonagh, Karlsson, Doughty, OEL etc is out there over the next year or so, it would be a prudent move to go big.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Nobody is arguing that you don't go outside the organization. What you'll find in virtually all instances is championship teams first get a proper gauge on what they have and their needs before making a move to fill holes.

There are a pile of question marks around this team that will be answered, in part, by a playoff run. First, are they actually good enough to win a round or two? Can Freddy put in a solid series performance? How good are Rielly, Zaitsev, Dermott, et al when under playoff series pressure? Which forwards perform well in these circumstances? What weaknesses do other teams exploit in a series? It goes on and on. You've gotta battle test these guys before you can identify the big needs.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

BeLeafer said:
Name one that has.
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Pens made a huge deadline deal for Hossa after losing in the first round the year before. It got them to the finals. Made more big deals the next year for the likes of kunitz, guerin, gill, etc.

Kings traded for Richards and Carter and others before having any real playoff success.

Pretty sure the same can be said for most any cup winner.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Penguins Trade additions leading up to 1st cup:

M.Hossa + P.Dupuis --- cost Pens 18yr old 1st round pick A.Esposito, 1st round pick in 2008, 25yr old 1st round pick C.Armstrong, and 24yr old 3rd round pick E.Christensen
C.Kunitz --- cost the Pens their 24yr old top-10 scoring top-5 pick dman R.Whitney
G.Roberts -- cost the Penst their 24yr old 2nd round pick N.Welch
H.Gill ------- cost the Pens a 2nd and 5th round picks
N.Ekman --- cost the Pens a 2nd round pick
G.Laraque -- Cost the pens a 3rd round pick and 21yr old 3rd round pick D.Carcillo
B.Guerin --- cost the Pens a 3rd round pick
D.Moore --- cost the Pens a 3rd round pick
J.Kwiatowski -- cost the Pens a 4th round pick
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Yeah I guess. But we don't need a conference final run to know that the Leafs need another high end defensman and a player Karlsson, OEL, McDonagh, Duoghty would significantly improve the team. You see the list of defenseman that may potentially move within the next year or so, and it would be a shame to miss out because you want to see a playoff run first.

I don't see many question marks on the team honestly. We have an elite center, and a good checking center. We have high end scoring wingers. We have a top goalie. We have a top pairing dmen.

You can always improve the depth, but IMO its pretty clear the biggest need is another high end defenseman.
 
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Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

zeke said:
Pens made a huge deadline deal for Hossa after losing in the first round the year before. It got them to the finals. Made more big deals the next year for the likes of kunitz, guerin, gill, etc.

Kings traded for Richards and Carter and others before having any real playoff success.

Pretty sure the same can be said for most any cup winner.
Click to expand...

Not one that did it any sooner than the third year of their elite asset draft acquisitions. They all tested these teams before making such acquisitions. Patience, grasshopper.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Arguably the Leafs already started making these types of deals by trading significant futures for Andersen and signing Marleau/Hainsey.

You progress as the opportunities presents themselves. Its not like there is one magic move that will bring a Cup once they reach a certain point. The team just needs to keep trying to improve.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Blackhawks trade leading up to first cup:

M.Havlat -- 25yr old 1st rounder M.Bell + a 2nd rounder + 21yr old 2nd rounder M.Barinka
S.Pahlsson -24yr old dman J.Wisniewski
N.Leddy + K.Johnsson - 23yr old top-5 pick C.Barker
P.Sharp --- cost a 3rd round pick
J.Williams - cost a 3rd round pick
R.Vrbata --- cost 2 4th rounders
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

I do think Lilly is a terrific trade chip and I wouldn't give two ****s if they used him in a package to grab an elite rhd. They just better pick the right player to acquire though because that could look bad in a hurry. It's a make or break kind of trade. I don't know who that player would be (in truth I'm wouldn't be 100% sold on anyone they'd get) but if they do it they better get it right.


Because yeah.. an elite #1 rhd puts them as a real cup threat for the next few years at least.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

zeke said:
Blackhawks trade leading up to first cup:

M.Havlat -- 25yr old 1st rounder M.Bell + a 2nd rounder + 21yr old 2nd rounder M.Barinka
S.Pahlsson -24yr old dman J.Wisniewski
N.Leddy + K.Johnsson - 23yr old top-5 pick C.Barker
P.Sharp --- cost a 3rd round pick
J.Williams - cost a 3rd round pick
R.Vrbata --- cost 2 4th rounders
Click to expand...

:lol
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Kings Trades leading up to 1st cup:

J.Carter --- 24yr old 3rd overall pick J.Johnson + 1st rounder
M.Richards -- 20yr old 5th overall pick B.Schenn, 22yr old 2nd rounder W.Simmonds, + 2nd rounder
D.Penner - 1st rounder + 19yr old 1st rounder C.Teubert + 3rd rounder
J.Williams --- 2nd rounder + 23yr old 2nd rounder P.O'Sullivan,
R.Smyth --- 24yr old dman K.Quincey, 5th rounder
B.Richardson -- 2nd rounder
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Speaking of Liljegren, how is he being used on the Marlies these days? And who is he paired with?

Since AHL stats is so limited, I don't know if he's being used as 1st unit, 2nd unit or 3rd unit D.

I see that he's not picking up a lot of points but offense should not be a problem for him down the road. If he's being developed on his defensive game and is playing heavy minutes vs good competition, then that is an encouraging news despite he's not picking up points right now.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

The kid is just a kid. but from what I have seen is this..... He has the ability to thrust , out of his dzone, like no one I have seen since Karlsson. To trade him? Phew, better be real good.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Our equivalent package for an elite player will likely look like Kapanen/Brown + Liljegren + 1st rounder. Thats a damn steep price to pay. I wouldn't be paying that unless i'm getting someone youngish and with multiple years of control left. No chance i move a package of futures like that for a guy with 1.5 years left on his deal. We need these young cheap ELC type players to fill the roster so we don't have to fill it with Dominic Moore/Ben Smith types.

If the guy only has 1.5 year left on his deal than we should just wait it out. I don't think we need to rush into any deal for a defender.

Who are these elite level defenders that are available anyway? McDonagh has 1.5 left. OEL? Doughty? Karlsson? Why pay that type of package when we can just wait it out and get them for just money after next season? We'd be better off as then we could potentially have that defender along with the futures.

Hjalmarsson just got traded last offseason for a pretty mediocre Connor Murphy and Laurent Dauphin package. We can easily match something similar imo without gutting the system.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

There's no rush.

We're probably not going to win it all this year anyway, with or without them, so why not just roll with what we've got plus some cheap upgrades?

I like McDonagh, but I don't think he's the right guy. For one thing, we have Rielly, Gardiner, and Dermott all on the left side. Wait for the opportunity to grab Doughty or Karlsson for free.

And that's if you can't land Tavares in the offseason.

Basically, we need to add one more of these top caliber kind of guys. Any of them will do. Take a shot at them as UFAs and try to get whichever one you can. Don't blow your wad on something that isn't exactly what you need.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

I like McDonagh, and he has a few things going for him ...

- He's 28, still very much in his prime, and most likely will stay in his prime for the next 4 years at least
- He's an all round defenseman who's as good offensively as he is defensively
- His raw skills are very balanced, he doesn't rely on any 1 particular skillset (shot, skating, size, etc.)
- His hockey IQ appears to be pretty good
- He ranks top 30 in pretty much all advanced stats among dmen, which means he is a true #1D (I know I previously said he isn't, but I must have been thinking about someone else who we looked into his advanced stats and realized he's overhyped ... McDonagh is a true #1D)
- He is signed on to a very cheap contract ($4.8M, I think?) for 1 more season
- He's from Minnesota ... I don't particularly like American dmen but those from MN are ok ;)

My biggest knock against him, if any, are
- He's LHD. I may be mistaken but I think he plays RD as much as he plays LD on NYR ala Hainsey though
- He doesn't really have a great shot, and the Leafs can really use a shot from the point
- He isn't overly physical at 6'1, and the Leafs can really use a top 4 D who absolutely levels our opponents

So I'd say he's a good fit, though not a great fit. It depends on the asking price for NY (I bet it will cost us arm and a leg) but I think he will do well in Toronto.

I won't pay the 'expected price' of Liljegren + roster player + 1st round pick, which probably means we won't end up with him. But I think I'd pay Liljegren + 1st, and a secondary piece like Leivo or something for him.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

LeafOfFaith said:
There's no rush.

We're probably not going to win it all this year anyway, with or without them, so why not just roll with what we've got plus some cheap upgrades?

I like McDonagh, but I don't think he's the right guy. For one thing, we have Rielly, Gardiner, and Dermott all on the left side. Wait for the opportunity to grab Doughty or Karlsson for free.

And that's if you can't land Tavares in the offseason.

Basically, we need to add one more of these top caliber kind of guys. Any of them will do. Take a shot at them as UFAs and try to get whichever one you can. Don't blow your wad on something that isn't exactly what you need.
Click to expand...
So a couple things. I agree we don't need to rush, but I also think we CAN win any time now. I'm not saying we're a 'contender' but any team that makes it to the playoff, thanks to the parity in the NHL, CAN win it any given year imo. Our window of opportunity has already begun imo. We haven't 'peaked' but we CAN win now.

I also think the other upside of paying the steep price for a guy like McDonagh is you CAN still go out and sign a big time UFA like, say, Tavares in the offseason. If we sign a big time UFA, let's say Doughty or Karlsson (just example, don't think either of them will be Leaf-bound) , we absolutely won't have any cap space left for another big UFA.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

McDonagh - Rielly
Gardiner - Hainsey
Dermott - Zaitsev

I mean, we can win cups with that.
 
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