NCAA bracket contest?
- Thread starter Paulie Walnuts
- Start date
cmaleski2
Well-known member
UNC was able to avoid any type of academic probation for years by having their players enrolled in no show single paper fake classes for better than a decade to keep athletic GPAs up, players eligible, and to ensure their players only had to focus on what was really important, playing sports.
The reckoning for UNC and their cheating ways will be coming soon enough, but its process and by the process there should be nothing that taints this season should they win it all. They are in the clear to win this National championship. Heck if you listen to Jimmy Boheim, its ok to break the rules, that is not the same as cheating. So its all good, until you get caught that is, then its just not good for a while, you pay some price (eventually) and then back at it you go.
I'm pulling for Nova myself, but you all know I don't like the ACC, and that goes WAY WAY WAY back to the early 90s just due to my UCONN fandom (and Big East fandom back in the day). Obviously my dislike for the ACC has grown much more since even then. Even if my kids end up at UNC, or NC State or (gasp) Duke I will NEVER be able to root for any of them to win....call me old fashioned that way :thumbup:
The reckoning for UNC and their cheating ways will be coming soon enough, but its process and by the process there should be nothing that taints this season should they win it all. They are in the clear to win this National championship. Heck if you listen to Jimmy Boheim, its ok to break the rules, that is not the same as cheating. So its all good, until you get caught that is, then its just not good for a while, you pay some price (eventually) and then back at it you go.
I'm pulling for Nova myself, but you all know I don't like the ACC, and that goes WAY WAY WAY back to the early 90s just due to my UCONN fandom (and Big East fandom back in the day). Obviously my dislike for the ACC has grown much more since even then. Even if my kids end up at UNC, or NC State or (gasp) Duke I will NEVER be able to root for any of them to win....call me old fashioned that way :thumbup:
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LJG
Well-known member
I'd say that since Roy has been neck deep in the doo doo since he got back here that leaves a bit of a taint on it.
cmaleski2
Well-known member
I disagree LJG. This group of UNC kids are not able to take advantage of the fake paper classes that UNC got caught with. UNC will be duly punished for the misdeeds of the extensive recent past (eventually), but this group of kids and season are 'clean' (as far as we know). Roy Williams probably is just as dirty as the rest of the big time coaches who have to know that these types of things happen more often than anyone would like to admit, but what happened in the past shouldn't take away from this UNC team if the process hasn't suspended UNC from the tournament (which they haven't, yet).
Tainted this year because Roy Williams is probably a liar about what he knows and doesn't know from past seasons? That's a hard sell for me. If the wheels of NCAA justice turned faster UNC wouldn't be eligible this year, but they don't, so they are.
Tainted this year because Roy Williams is probably a liar about what he knows and doesn't know from past seasons? That's a hard sell for me. If the wheels of NCAA justice turned faster UNC wouldn't be eligible this year, but they don't, so they are.
LJG
Well-known member
I look at it as the upperclassmen were probably recruited with help of the scam. Two, we know that Weinstain was limited to investigating AFAM only but his e-mail appendices showed several other complicit departments. Then there is that I just don't trust them as far as I can throw them. Once a cheater...
You assume the NCAA can involve itself in purely academic matters. The classes were not "fake". They were legitimate courses albeit easy. If the university says they are valid courses AND all students can take them AND did, then there was no unequal benefit to athletes. Therefore no sanctions.
CarolinaPen
Active member
If Carolina wins tonight it will just balance out the 2005 championships that surely will be stripped away at some point. When the majority of your starting lineup was enrolled (and some only eligible because of) in fake classes during the championship semester it would be hard for the NCAA to let that stand. Then again, the NCAA has pretty much already been reduced to a bad joke so who knows.
All that said, if Carolina wins it this year they earned it as this team was put together by Roy with one hand tied behind his back due to all the pending violations and outcomes. In a way it paid that he wasn't able to recruit "one and done" talent and had this team together for a long time.
All that said, if Carolina wins it this year they earned it as this team was put together by Roy with one hand tied behind his back due to all the pending violations and outcomes. In a way it paid that he wasn't able to recruit "one and done" talent and had this team together for a long time.
cmaleski2
Well-known member
I guess you can spin it that way Count, but when the NCAA compliance department announces their punishment for UNC in the not too distant future I think its going to feel very differently about those every being 'legitimate courses'. They were clearly put together for the express purpose of keeping Football and Basketball players academically eligible without requiring them to show up for class or do any work. They tried to get away with it by allowing any student to take the class, but the major beneficiary was UNC athletics. The NCAA already has stated as such in their Level 1 violations list.
UNC won't be able to spin their way out of what could be one of the biggest punishments in NCAA history for level 1 lack of institutional control violations.
UNC won't be able to spin their way out of what could be one of the biggest punishments in NCAA history for level 1 lack of institutional control violations.
CarolinaPen
Active member
I suggest you familiarize yourself with the facts of the case if you think they were not fake. The fact that the classes were open to all students is probably even worse to the University and why they are on Academic probation with their accrediting body. The local paper here, or at least one journalist, has done a good job of staying on top of it. He published a new story just this past weekend.
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article69262627.html
Stripping is the stupidest thing the NCAA does. The players still won and not like Illinois is awarded the banner. It was like taking wins away from JoPa or taking USC's football championship away.
LJG
Well-known member
You apparently have very little understanding of the issue. Not surprising given what I assume is/are your sources. My assumption is it is all from your Hole friends.
In a nutshell:
1. I am not assuming.
2. SACS is the regional (Southern) accreditation body. UNC-Cheat is on probation with them until June 2016 for the 'junk' involving athletics & classes. UNC admitted the 'junk' goes back to the late 80s in their response to SACS that got them on probation.
3. NCAA did not say anything about the rigor of the classes in the NOA. They do stay away from that, as they should. It has to do with the fact that athletes only had to hand in a minimal amount of work compared to other students in the class who did have to do all the work and actually attend classes, i.e. what Weinstien called 'bifurcated' classes in his report. Hence, NCAA went 'impermissible benefit' route. And on page 49 of the NoA, it clearly implicates their 'precious'.
BTW, the NCAA NoA spelled out five Level 1 violations against UNC-CHeat. There will be sanctions.
Care to try another lame ass response?
Does losing to the Heels all the time and being a State fan make you angry.
Maybe if State worried more about its own program more than big brother at Chapel Hill, you wouldn't be irrelevant.
Take away the 2005 championship, fine, they still won the game.
You know you don't a crap about any "academic probation" through some accreditation office. You only are up in arms over it because UNC wins and NC State never does.
Maybe if State worried more about its own program more than big brother at Chapel Hill, you wouldn't be irrelevant.
Take away the 2005 championship, fine, they still won the game.
You know you don't a crap about any "academic probation" through some accreditation office. You only are up in arms over it because UNC wins and NC State never does.
cmaleski2
Well-known member
From my perspective, I would like the NCAA to do much more than strip wins and titles when they hand out punishments. I would like them to fine the guilty schools EXTENSIVELY (make it hurt, really really hurt) AND ban the schools from tournament competition for multiple years. Sure that punishes the kids currently there who may have had nothing to do with it, but it also would put the onus on the school to watch their athletic programs a little more closely.
I'm UNC, NCState and Duke neutral (don't like any of them). If it was UCONN caught cheating like UNC was I would be calling for the same punishment. If the NCAA is going to continue the facade of student athletes then really start to throw the book at schools that cheat and get caught. Otherwise let's stop the student athlete nonsense for revenue sports and just pay them the value of an athletic scholarship and then they can decide if they want to use that money for an education at the school or not bother making any effort to acquire any sort of education and pocket the money. If the kids don't want to be bothered trying to get a college education they don't have to. No more academic eligibility requirements unless the school wants there to be (up to them). Offer up (or even require) those who elect not to enroll in the college education process remedial high school education courses so kids who can barely read are not hopelessly lost trying to take college classes they have no business trying to take. Try to get them to leave more educated than they were when they got there. Problem solved.
I'm UNC, NCState and Duke neutral (don't like any of them). If it was UCONN caught cheating like UNC was I would be calling for the same punishment. If the NCAA is going to continue the facade of student athletes then really start to throw the book at schools that cheat and get caught. Otherwise let's stop the student athlete nonsense for revenue sports and just pay them the value of an athletic scholarship and then they can decide if they want to use that money for an education at the school or not bother making any effort to acquire any sort of education and pocket the money. If the kids don't want to be bothered trying to get a college education they don't have to. No more academic eligibility requirements unless the school wants there to be (up to them). Offer up (or even require) those who elect not to enroll in the college education process remedial high school education courses so kids who can barely read are not hopelessly lost trying to take college classes they have no business trying to take. Try to get them to leave more educated than they were when they got there. Problem solved.
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Paulie Walnuts
Well-known member
UNC people are pretty confident they won't have major problems. Maybe 1 year of probation. No titles lost. They won't get off with just a wrist slap - although I guess that depends on your definition of wrist slap.
Which means either they are very dumb, or they know what will happen. And I don't think they are that dumb.
As far as I can tell about 95% of the people calling for titles to be stripped have very red tinted glasses on. (And a few have dark blue glasses)
Which means either they are very dumb, or they know what will happen. And I don't think they are that dumb.
As far as I can tell about 95% of the people calling for titles to be stripped have very red tinted glasses on. (And a few have dark blue glasses)
CarolinaPen
Active member
For the record, I am a Duke fan and losing to the Heels the hasn't generally been a problem the past couple of years :thumbsup(22):
That said losing doesn't change any facts in this case but it may help you deflect the argument away from factual information!
The courses remind me of Battier's religious studies degree.
Paulie Walnuts
Well-known member
The nice thing about pro sports is nobody pretends it's not all about the Ws. You win, you keep your job, you lose and you get axed. There is no fake worrying about other stuff like you have in college sports.
CarolinaPen
Active member
So very true....at the Pro level you accept everything is about the money and you don't get caught up in the dumb arguments about who is winning "the right way" and such. The NCAA just needs to give up and agree on basic payments for "student" athletes and lesson the restrictions. Cut away the level of hypocrisy.
CarolinaPen
Active member
There are a good number Duke examples you could have chosen to highlight your point that all colleges/universities turn the other way from time to time. There is something to the argument that Carolina is under the microscope only because they got caught. I think it does go on to lessor degrees at many places including Duke. Unfortunately for you, Battier is probably one of the worst candidates you could have chosen if you want to pick on Duke and the student/athlete dynamic. Then again, you are a Carolina and Habs fan so you are accustomed to poor choices! :couch
Just having some fun with you!! Good luck to the Tarheels tonight!