leaffan2005
Well-known member
Oh look another shooting spree. Absolute shocker.
OT: American Politics
- Thread starter MindzEye
- Start date
leaffan2005
Well-known member
What a dumb ****ing country. Joke of the developed world.
axlsalinger
Well-known member
Was it the A-Team helping a little old lady keep her ranch?
leaffan2005
Well-known member
How many people have to die before people start getting their heads out of their asses. Sadly it's thoseasy darn "progressives" who don't feel like waking up every morning to senseless murder.
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
Stop thinking of this in a Canadian mindset. You seem to think this isn't cultural. It most certainly is.
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
Exactly. Remember that.
leaffan2005
Well-known member
It's not cherry picking. Look around and smell the popcorn. Your country's recent track record (over the last decade) has been riddled with some of the worst gun related tragedies in its history. And you have the gall to sit there and justify this shit.
Makes me sick to my stomach. Have family in the States who aren't complete morons who have to live through a system where people like you get in the way of common sense laws that should have been in place years ago.
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
What you fail to realize is that many conservatives believe the laws need tightening. The problem is the legislature never presents simple bills. There is always overreach and then obstruction. Make it simple, people will agree. Start adding in wishlist items and less will agree.
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
So you know what's better for people, got it. Not getting shot is always preferable. So is not being told what's better for you. I live in this country, I have the same concerns every rational parent has, I work within the system to protect mine. What you want is a pipe-dream right now. When people can guarantee me that guns are out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill I will consider relinquishing mine.
I already agree with tighter legislation on background checks and even requiring licensure yet you continue to try and bait me. It really makes you look unintelligent.
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
The fact that you think gun owners like waking up to seeing senseless murders tells me everything I need to know about your intellect and bias.
axlsalinger
Well-known member
But that's exactly how I'm thinking of it. From a cultural perspective. Someone who spent their entire life in a gun culture, likes guns, thinks they're a "right", etc. So I ask myself the question: what do they need or want a gun for? What are the answers? 2nd Amendment, okay, you have the right to bear arms. Lots of gun people are into hunting. I'm not, but I get it. I love animals, but I'm a total carnivore. Some people like to hunt for food, for some it's a type of sport, an outdoor activity, bonding with friends, etc. I get that. Then there's home protection. Totally understand that too. People have the right to bear arms, and want a gun in their home to protect against an invader.
Then I take it right back to the U.S. Constitution. Why did they include the right to bear arms in the first place? The answers are exactly the same: hunting and self-protection.
Rifles for hunting, handguns for home protection. Even though I pretty strongly disagree on the 2nd point due to statistics and logic (from my foreigners perspective), I totally get it and have NEVER argued against Americans owning handguns for self and home protection. Not once, ever, never happened.
Assault rifles however, were not what the founding fathers had in mind, and are pretty ludicrous to use for either hunting or home protection. Joe Idiot's right to own an AK-47 because it looks cool, and for use in the unlikely event of alien invasion, are trumped by the fact that THOUSANDS of people are getting murdered. One lone lunatic can kill huge numbers of people with one. The carnage that they can cause is completely above and beyond any benefit they provide, especially when you consider that there is no benefit. There is literally no reason for even the head of the NRA to own an assault rifle. Or for that matter, a grenade launcher, an armoured tank, or an F-35.
leaffan2005
Well-known member
They may not like it, but like other things in life, sometimes you need to bring forth personal sacrifice in order to promote change. Guys like you may hate that these tragedies happen but are not willing to sacrifice anything of your own (i.e. your precious recreational weapons) to get it done. So your empathy really has very little value.
And yeah, the data to back up the value of owning guns for home protection makes you look very unintelligent with this repeated argument.
axlsalinger
Well-known member
If this is true, get it the **** done already. Enough posturing. I don't believe there are many conservatives who will go on the record (off the record is an entirely different story) because they're scared shitless of the NRA. But if they have the balls and a sensible plan for background checks and gun law tightening with teeth, get it the **** done. Now.
leaffan2005
Well-known member
Yeah, it is highly unlikely that a significant number of conservatives want tighter gun regulations. Please provide the data because I smell bullshit.
There is a reason that almost every Republican presidential candidate dismisses tighter gun regulations as part of their platform. It speaks to their expected electorate.
There is a reason that almost every Republican presidential candidate dismisses tighter gun regulations as part of their platform. It speaks to their expected electorate.
leaffan2005
Well-known member
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
Guns are the ultimate symbolic threshold. Many people are ingrained to believe that if they cave on guns, that's the ballgame folks. Government steps in and controls their lives. Sure people want guns for all the reasons you've mentioned but it's more than that. Americans are fiercely proud of how they became a country. They look past the atrocities against Indians, Africans (at the time), French, Spanish (granted they had their own atrocities) etc. You may think 200 years is a long time, it isn't when it's continually ingrained that they cannot allow anyone to walk all over them like King George did again. The NRA is complicit in this but so are families. The second amendment was created for the right to hunt and feed your family as well as the need to protect the fledgling country that really had no army, no infrastructure, no identity.
Americans are very slow to change (metric system anyone?). They are even slower to accept criticism from outsiders. People here, for the most part, don't give a shit how it's done in Canada, Europe or elsewhere. When I keep saying it's ingrained, I mean it. It is so deeply rooted as a symbol of freedom for millions that you are not going to take it away so easily. In their minds they have the guns to revolt should the day ever come. I kid you not. I've been trying to get you guys to understand for years, it's clearly apparent that you never will. Also, don't mistake reasoning for defending. I disagree with many issues in the gun culture. I made sure and continue to make sure I'm licensed and responsible. I wish everyone was. This is the world in which I chose to live in, how much longer though I don't know.
You're getting hyperbolic again and please stop saying AK47. There is an immense difference between an AR15 and an AK47. If you knew anything about guns you'd know that and how silly it sounds when you continually say it.
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
Where, exactly, did I say Repubicans?
You need to keep your emotions in check and read. You're really coming across as a misinformed child.
leaffan2005
Well-known member
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
Did you even read that poll you posted or only looked at the first couple of questions?
Better and mandatory background checks? Pubs 90% approve.
"Do you favor or oppose a federal law requiring background checks on all potential gun buyers?"
Favor Oppose Unsure/
No answer
% % %
6/13-14/16
89 8 2
Republicans
Would you support or oppose a law requiring background checks on people buying guns at gun shows or online?"
Support Oppose Unsure/
No answer
% % %
12/16-20/15
89 9 2
Republicans
92 6 2
"As you may know, individuals on the U.S. government's terrorist watch list are not allowed to fly on planes. Would you support or oppose banning those on the U.S. government's terrorist watch list from purchasing guns?"
Support Oppose Unsure/
No answer
% % %
12/16-20/15
83 13 4
Republicans
77 20 3
You claim Republicans don't want better background checks yet your own link proves you wrong. What politicians do is not reflective of the electorate.
Better and mandatory background checks? Pubs 90% approve.
"Do you favor or oppose a federal law requiring background checks on all potential gun buyers?"
Favor Oppose Unsure/
No answer
% % %
6/13-14/16
89 8 2
Republicans
Would you support or oppose a law requiring background checks on people buying guns at gun shows or online?"
Support Oppose Unsure/
No answer
% % %
12/16-20/15
89 9 2
Republicans
92 6 2
"As you may know, individuals on the U.S. government's terrorist watch list are not allowed to fly on planes. Would you support or oppose banning those on the U.S. government's terrorist watch list from purchasing guns?"
Support Oppose Unsure/
No answer
% % %
12/16-20/15
83 13 4
Republicans
77 20 3
You claim Republicans don't want better background checks yet your own link proves you wrong. What politicians do is not reflective of the electorate.