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OT: American Politics

UWHabs said:
Yeah, the army being stupid in their policies because of MeToo has nothing to do with Pence and his ilk being afraid of a temptress reporter.
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Again, I'm sure that the rise of men refusing to be alone with women is entirely due to religious christian fundamentalists
 
So now it’s “send her back”? Disgraceful.

Trump didn’t even have to start it, the crowd had a Pavlovian response. Messed up.
 
Disgraceful.

I disagree with Omar on many things but she has every right to say what she says.
 
Volcanologist said:
bunch of scared programmed chickens.

too afraid to have a real debate on this topic, instead we're going to diverge into slut clothes and women being owned by their brothers and fathers, because obviously if you think a sea change in male-female work interactions is needed, it must be because you're a caveman who doesn't want to treat women like human beings.
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I'm not trying to shut down any debate.

I'm just pointing that Altair is wrong to frame a religious fundamentalist Republican's refusal to be alone with women as a consequence of the "MeToo" movement.

If you disagree with that point, feel free to outline why.

If you want to continue on with the "MeToo" debate that started off as a result of the tangent Altair went off on, have at it.
 
LeafGm said:
I'm not trying to shut down any debate.

I'm just pointing that Altair is wrong to frame a religious fundamentalist Republican's refusal to be alone with women as a consequence of the "MeToo" movement.

If you disagree with that point, feel free to outline why.

If you want to continue on with the "MeToo" debate that started off as a result of the tangent Altair went off on, have at it.
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Should it not be pointed out that this is a lot more prevelant than just the few cases of fundamentalist christians who refuse to be alone with women that we hear about?

Or should we focus solely on the few cases of fundamentalist Christians that we hear about?
 
For the record, I think its a great disservice to women not talk about wider implications of them being segregated in the workplace, and focus simply on the christian wackjobs like Mike Pence and his ilk.

Its a shame people here are too chickenshit to have a honest conversation about it, its implications and the roots of where this social change is coming from.
 
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Volcanologist said:
bunch of scared programmed chickens.

too afraid to have a real debate on this topic, instead we're going to diverge into slut clothes and women being owned by their brothers and fathers, because obviously if you think a sea change in male-female work interactions is needed, it must be because you're a caveman who doesn't want to treat women like human beings.
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yeah yeah great debate.

its now women's fault that this conservative asswipes won't treat them like humans.
 
If only they had just shut up about that whole getting raped thing, these men would treat them better.
 
zeke said:
If only they had just shut up about that whole getting raped thing, these men would treat them better.
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They should have 100 percent come out about the rapes. 100 percent.

That said, do you think guys like Erin Weir or Patrick Brown raped anybody? Do you think Justin Trudeau sexually assaulted someone?
 
Altair said:
They should have 100 percent come out about the rapes. 100 percent.

That said, do you think guys like Erin Weir or Patrick Brown raped anybody? Do you think Justin Trudeau sexually assaulted someone?
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Well thats just it, yes. Metoo is about way more than rape. Its about everyday interactions between men and women. In the workplace, in bars, in the bedroom.

Cases like Cosby and Weinstien are easy. They are criminals. We have institutions in place to deal with criminals. Its the Louis CK, Aziz, Brown etc. stuff that is prevalent and needs to be discussed. And "well I guess I can't interact with women one on one" is not a positive way of addressing it. That is actually avoiding the discussion.
 
leafman101 said:
Well thats just it, yes. Metoo is about way more than rape. Its about everyday interactions between men and women. In the workplace, in bars, in the bedroom.

Cases like Cosby and Weinstien are easy. They are criminals. We have institutions in place to deal with criminals. Its the Louis CK, Aziz, Brown etc. stuff that is prevalent and needs to be discussed. And "well I guess I can't interact with women one on one" is not a positive way of addressing it. That is actually avoiding the discussion.
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That true.

But the "well I guess I can't interact with women one on one" is a result of not having that discussion.
 
leafman101 said:
Well thats just it, yes. Metoo is about way more than rape. Its about everyday interactions between men and women. In the workplace, in bars, in the bedroom.

Cases like Cosby and Weinstien are easy. They are criminals. We have institutions in place to deal with criminals. Its the Louis CK, Aziz, Brown etc. stuff that is prevalent and needs to be discussed. And "well I guess I can't interact with women one on one" is not a positive way of addressing it. That is actually avoiding the discussion.
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I've avoided the **** out of this conversation because I figured it was going to end up here anyway given enough time...

This is a bigger part of the underlying issue that most people want to accept, and it's a major root of where a lot of men object to it. There's 2 sets of rules for men. There's rules for attractive men and rules for unattractive men. The bar between acceptable and unacceptable behaviour in a man towards a woman tends to land with whether or not the man in question turns her on.

A not insignificant aspect of #metoo (yes, not to be confused with the criminal shit already discussed) is almost entirely society trying to tell undesirable men to not shoot their awkward shot. Socially awkward people are socially awkward, and a big part of the underlying fabric that leads to women feeling this way is socially awkward, undesirable men taking their shitty shots at women. How do you fix that without making the majority of men feel like sexual predators for being in the same room with a woman alone? They legit don't ****ing know how to interact with them well on almost any level.
 
MindzEye said:
I've avoided the **** out of this conversation because I figured it was going to end up here anyway given enough time...

This is a bigger part of the underlying issue that most people want to accept, and it's a major root of where a lot of men object to it. There's 2 sets of rules for men. There's rules for attractive men and rules for unattractive men. The bar between acceptable and unacceptable behaviour in a man towards a woman tends to land with whether or not the man in question turns her on.

A not insignificant aspect of #metoo (yes, not to be confused with the criminal shit already discussed) is almost entirely society trying to tell undesirable men to not shoot their awkward shot. Socially awkward people are socially awkward, and a big part of the underlying fabric that leads to women feeling this way is socially awkward, undesirable men taking their shitty shots at women. How do you fix that without making the majority of men feel like sexual predators for being in the same room with a woman alone? They legit don't ****ing know how to interact with them well on almost any level.
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The rules for unattractive men are simply going to be the rules for all men.

Simple.

Until such a time comes though, gender segregation will be the go to
 
leafman101 said:
Well thats just it, yes. Metoo is about way more than rape. Its about everyday interactions between men and women. In the workplace, in bars, in the bedroom.

Cases like Cosby and Weinstien are easy. They are criminals. We have institutions in place to deal with criminals. Its the Louis CK, Aziz, Brown etc. stuff that is prevalent and needs to be discussed. And "well I guess I can't interact with women one on one" is not a positive way of addressing it. That is actually avoiding the discussion.
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and stuff like this from a while ago


https://www.newsweek.com/touch-sens...ggering-level-sexual-harassment-clubs-1236778

To highlight the problem, ad agency Ogilvy sent three women wearing a touch-sensitive dress to a nightclub in São Paulo, Brazil, to record how often they were groped over the course of almost four hours in total.


The agency—which conducted the experiment as part of a campaign by Schweppes—asked men on a night out whether they thought women really faced widespread sexual harassment in bars. Some men included in an Ogilvy video said they didn't think women experience major problems with harassment.

But data collected by the touch-sensitive dress painted a different picture. Researchers found the women were touched 157 times over three hours and 47 minutes—that's more than 40 times per hour.
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Josh Wingrove @josh_wingrove
4m
Trump, asked today in the Oval Office why he didn't stop the "send her back" chants, says: “I think I did, I started speaking very quickly," via @JenniferJJacobs.

Says he wasn't happy with the chant, disagrees.

(Fact: He stopped speaking for 13 seconds, resumed once chant died down.)
 
São Paulo, Brazil
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Dude, completely different cultures.

I'm not going to step up to bat for north american bar culture, I've seen some shit in my day (and yes, shit that I'd like to see change). But I can say unequivocally, that the way men feel empowered to act at the bar in Latin countries and the way they feel empowered to act in North America, are completely different. Even before getting into the way Latin men feel empowered to interact with women differently, they're dancing cultures (where we just aren't). There's a whole bag of touching in latin dancing, and it's not uncommon to dance with a couple dozen different dance partners in a night at a latin bar.
 
zeke said:
yeah yeah great debate.

its now women's fault that this conservative asswipes won't treat them like humans.
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like I said...what debate? you're too goddamned scared to do anything but flap your virtue flags.

have the courage to accept that new rules have to be put in place to really solve this. we have rules because they're needed, and they attempt to enforce behaviours for the greater good.

As much as it terrifies you, a real world solution is needed, which means something other than endlessly wallowing in this oppressor-victim framework has to happen.
 
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