OT: The News Thread

[corksens]

It's a little premature to say that in 3 years that Rae at the helm will automatically lead to another conservative majority. By 2015, it will have been 20 years since Rae was premier of Ontario, to say the the electorate have that long of a member is giving far too much credit to the average person. Hell Jays, you were still in diapers when Rae left office and you have no recollection of how he governed.

We're still 3+ years away from the next election, anything can happen in that time frame. The only thing that is apparent is that Rae is the only opposition leader who looks like he knows what he's doing. Turmel has been anything but forgettable, and as for the Bloc, i honestly can't remember their name. The NDP may see a resurgence once MuClair is crowned, but i'm not certain.

The Conservatives won't just "hope" people remember, they'll make sure to remind them.

 

[corksens]

I told you douchebag that it was a bullshit question and it was in a vacuum. I do not answer questions in vacuums when it comes to legal matters.

Face it, no matter how I answer you will attack.

If I say yes, that is fine, you will say I am either full of it or a terrible father/human being.

If I say no, you will claim I am a hypocrite and a disgusting human being ginger pig.

I just want to see if you are so dedicated and trusting of a judges decision even when your son is the one being violently sexually assaulted to the point of suffering a lifetime of depression.

Something tells me your diehard "the law is perfect" attitude won't hold.

This exercise isn't to make you squeamish at the thought of count jr being fondled in a change room, but rather to serve as a reminder that there are real people, real victims, that live through the horror stories that we read about in the news. The fact that Graham James showed remorse, and saved the court money does nothing to help foster a sense of punishment and justice...meaning the law has failed the victim and therefore all of society.

 

[voyager]

The liberals should just take a page from the Conservatives attack book and just start attacking Harper and the other senior government ministers. Seriously, there is so much they could go after. McKay for misusing military assets, Clement for misusing funds for G20, Fantino flip-flopping on the F35. There is a lot they could be spending their money on. Not to mention the possible election fraud.

Unfortunately the liberal leadership seems to have not learned from the last election where the constant US Style attack ads destroyed Iggy years before the writ was dropped.

 

[worm]

And he would hand the Tories another majority.

usually it is the governing party that loses and not the opposition that wins

so it will come down to harper....so far so good

 

[JaysCyYoung]

It's a little premature to say that in 3 years that Rae at the helm will automatically lead to another conservative majority. By 2015, it will have been 20 years since Rae was premier of Ontario, to say the the electorate have that long of a member is giving far too much credit to the average person. Hell Jays, you were still in diapers when Rae left office and you have no recollection of how he governed.

We're still 3+ years away from the next election, anything can happen in that time frame. The only thing that is apparent is that Rae is the only opposition leader who looks like he knows what he's doing. Turmel has been anything but forgettable, and as for the Bloc, i honestly can't remember their name. The NDP may see a resurgence once MuClair is crowned, but i'm not certain.

Keep saying that to yourself Spinderella. The province of Ontario will NEVER elect Rae again.

 

[voyager]

Keep saying that to yourself Spinderella. The province of Ontario will NEVER elect Rae again.

Never is a very strong word.
The liberals have to make the coming election about Harper and his governments failings, and not about Rae and his history.

BTW, you move out of your parents house yet?

 

[anne25]

It's a little premature to say that in 3 years that Rae at the helm will automatically lead to another conservative majority. By 2015, it will have been 20 years since Rae was premier of Ontario, to say the the electorate have that long of a member is giving far too much credit to the average person. Hell Jays, you were still in diapers when Rae left office and you have no recollection of how he governed.

QUOTE]

Bringing up the past seemed to have worked for Mc|Guinty. He still blames Mike Harris for all the provinces woes.

voyager



Re: OT: The News Thread
The liberals should just take a page from the Conservatives attack book and just start attacking Harper and the other senior government ministers. Seriously, there is so much they could go after. McKay for misusing military assets, Clement for misusing funds for G20, Fantino flip-flopping on the F35. There is a lot they could be spending their money on. Not to mention the possible election fraud.

Unfortunately the liberal leadership seems to have not learned from the last election where the constant US Style attack ads destroyed Iggy years before the writ was dropped.

Give them time. Liberal, as much as the Conservatives are old hads at attack ads. Remember "Soldiers. With guns. On our strees" or all the "Secret Agenda" adds. And don't forget the ones where Harper would take away abortion rights and bring back capital punishment.

All three parties are pretty adept at slinging the mud and half truths.

 

[HabsAddict]

Keep saying that to yourself Spinderella. The province of Ontario will NEVER elect Rae again.

I wish I kept Rae's questionnaire on how many people where employed with disabilities. When I read it, I had this image of a 10 ton lift truck with a 5 ton load driven by a man with no eyes, directed by a mute guy in wheel chair.....and me watching in horror with tooth picks in my eyes so I can't close them....... Poe say hello to Clockwork Orange.

I wrote a while back how manufacturers couldn't find people who wanted to work because they were getting a "better deal" on welfare. Unless of course they were going to start at auto industry kind of money that Bobby had promised them. Taht evaporated instantly the minute Harris came in.

PLEASE Fiberals, please, elect Bobby. :thumbsup(22):

 

[HabsAddict]

Give them time. Liberal, as much as the Conservatives are old hads at attack ads. Remember "Soldiers. With guns. On our strees" or all the "Secret Agenda" adds. And don't forget the ones where Harper would take away abortion rights and bring back capital punishment.

All three parties are pretty adept at slinging the mud and half truths.

Yeah...but just remember one difference. If the Fiberals and Dippers fling it, it smells like roses. :rolleyes(2):

Right or wrong, they wont out-politic Harper.

 

[voyager]

referring to liberals as fiberals makes you sound like an high school drop out from a red neck community.

 

[TheCountofMonteCristo]

I just want to see if you are so dedicated and trusting of a judges decision even when your son is the one being violently sexually assaulted to the point of suffering a lifetime of depression.

Something tells me your diehard "the law is perfect" attitude won't hold.

This exercise isn't to make you squeamish at the thought of count jr being fondled in a change room, but rather to serve as a reminder that there are real people, real victims, that live through the horror stories that we read about in the news. The fact that Graham James showed remorse, and saved the court money does nothing to help foster a sense of punishment and justice...meaning the law has failed the victim and therefore all of society.

you do not understand the system and really should not comment as you speak solely from emotion and decisions in law are not based on emotion

of course I don't want my son to be fondled but since I would not be hearing nor deciding the case, what I might or might not want has no relevance. A dispassionate judge would make the decision and I would have to live with it and accept it, pure and simple.

 

[TheCountofMonteCristo]

by 2015 Harper will have been in power for 9 years, people might start to tire of him and his henchmen.

 

[Cpt. Koivu]

Yeah Cork, your idea of compensating for the victim's pain is more of a civil matter, criminal punishments aren't about just retribution, they're about the criminal as well.

 

[corksens]

you do not understand the system and really should not comment as you speak solely from emotion and decisions in law are not based on emotion

of course I don't want my son to be fondled but since I would not be hearing nor deciding the case, what I might or might not want has no relevance. A dispassionate judge would make the decision and I would have to live with it and accept it, pure and simple.

And that makes you a weak kneed sheep.

 

[corksens]

Yeah Cork, your idea of compensating for the victim's pain is more of a civil matter, criminal punishments aren't about just retribution, they're about the criminal as well.

I'm not talking financially. This isn't the US. But judgements should foster a sense of punishment first and foremost.

 

[MindzEye]

I'm not talking financially. This isn't the US. But judgements should foster a sense of punishment first and foremost.

But whose sense of punishment? Taking the feelings of the victim into account is silly...I'm vindictive, anyone wrongs me and I'd want them fired out of a cannon into the sun. What the relative level of my rage towards being wronged has to do with a reasonable application of law is beyond me. There's a purpose behind the charges being framed the way they are. "The Crown" V whomever...and not "the victim" V whomever. The inherent working logic is that you've committed a crime against society, and you answer to society, not to the individual you've wronged.

 

[corksens]

But whose sense of punishment? Taking the feelings of the victim into account is silly...I'm vindictive, anyone wrongs me and I'd want them fired out of a cannon into the sun. What the relative level of my rage towards being wronged has to do with a reasonable application of law is beyond me. There's a purpose behind the charges being framed the way they are. "The Crown" V whomever...and not "the victim" V whomever. The inherent working logic is that you've committed a crime against society, and you answer to society, not to the individual you've wronged.

So we don't take the victims feelings into consideration but we'll drop the sentence if the criminal shows remorse?

The problem with our system is we've detached ourselves from the fact that the victims are real people.

We just let a serial rapist and molester commit his crimes with a slap on the wrist. He's eligible for parole by Christmas.

You and count don't see any issue here? It's disgusting.

 

[MindzEye]

So we don't take the victims feelings into consideration but we'll drop the sentence if the criminal shows remorse?

The problem with our system is we've detached ourselves from the fact that the victims are real people.

We just let a serial rapist and molester commit his crimes with a slap on the wrist. He's eligible for parole by Christmas.

You and count don't see any issue here? It's disgusting.

Of course I see an issue here with this particular case....but, the crown was only going after 6 years, so it's not like you would have been pleased with the outcome in any event.

My concern overall is that your tenor continually seems to favour an American style justice system, when theirs is the most monstrous cluster**** in the western world.

Everyone, absolutely everyone else in the western world does it better, with lower societal crime rates as a bi product.

anyways...got a plane to catch

 

[corksens]

I don't want a US style prison system, but I do want sex offenders off the street and serving significant time in jail. They are incurable. They will re-offend.

 

[Cpt. Koivu]

Well the criminal's remorse indicates to how long it may be necessary to keep him locked up while the victim's pain doesn't speak to that to the same extent. As far as punishing the guy, how terrible what he did is of course supremely relevant, but the pain of the victim may not speak at all to the criminal.

Having the law judge what you did and how severely your action violated someone's rights and leaving how that violation affected the victim as a civil matter seems about right to me. Not a big fan of how sex offenders are dealt with either, but I would rather a system that gave longer sentences for what they did, not a system that tried to measure the pain of families and apply that to sentencing.