OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

[CaptainBolduke]

For three years I have wanted these guys to come out and be truthful about their real intentions. Well, I guess we have that now.

Most people knew from day one that these clowns had no intentions to try to win (or build around) with anything that Anthopolous built.

We are going into the 4th year of this bullshit.

 

[CaptainBolduke]

this is the boat I am on.

it's just a shame that Shatkins are at the helm when we have a talent like Vladdy.

I also don't understand why Atkins felt the need to throw his players under the bus like that.

I know this rubs people the wrong way, but there is a real possibility that Vlad ends up being our Harper/Machado and he bolts or gets traded when he's 25 or 26 years old.

 

[mbow30]

Vlad is probably idiot proof.

He may be. The talent around him however isn’t.

Unfortunately for fans it seems that shatkins has the full support of Rogers.

 

[Wayward DP]

I know this rubs people the wrong way, but there is a real possibility that Vlad ends up being our Harper/Machado and he bolts or gets traded when he's 25 or 26 years old.

oh I fully expect this, as long as these clowns are in charge.

 

[Wayward DP]

My issues with these guys is not that they didn't keep going for it in 2016, having more big money contracts on this roster would not be useful at the moment. My problem is that the rebuild didn't start sooner and they ended up getting pennies on the dollar for Osuna and Donaldson. If i had faith in these guys to do two things it would be evaluate talent ( which, honestly they have with good buy lows on Grichuk/Diaz and a lot of their draft picks) and to get value during the tear down. They bungled that with this trash half in half out approach signing shitty vets like Morales, Garcia, Grandy etc, none of which will put a dent in the AL playoff structure, nor does it help you rebuild.

Maybe Rogers wouldn't let them sell, in fact it's probably god damn likely and Shatkins are just as irritated as I am, but i'm at the point where i no longer care about seperating Rogers/Managment. One is a cheap ass owner only interested in using the team as a marketing arm, the other is a group of bean counting, arrogant suits that think they can win without spending money because they are smarter than everyone else.

their talent evaluation in free agency has sucked donkey balls. and this whole barely tread water till you drown approach is also excruciating. and I don't care if it was ownership or them. AA convinced ownership to try and win. Shatkins has not.

 

[GEEMAN]

their talent evaluation in free agency has sucked donkey balls. and this whole barely tread water till you drown approach is also excruciating. and I don't care if it was ownership or them. AA convinced ownership to try and win. Shatkins has not.

Shats wanted a rebuild after 2016 season , ownership said no per a MLB insider ( don't remember his name ) .

 

[UWHabs]

I know this rubs people the wrong way, but there is a real possibility that Vlad ends up being our Harper/Machado and he bolts or gets traded when he's 25 or 26 years old.

With guys at that talent level, you always have to assume that they'll leave at the first chance. Which is why they'll delay calling him up until April20 or whenever this year, since that gets an extra year under control for us. Delaying calling him up until June would be all about saving money, but bringing him up at the end of April is just about FA date. I do wish we could have just signed him to like an 8-year deal and just call him up earlier, but that's exceedingly rare for guys of his talent level.

 

[MyNameIsJonas]

their talent evaluation in free agency has sucked donkey balls. and this whole barely tread water till you drown approach is also excruciating. and I don't care if it was ownership or them. AA convinced ownership to try and win. Shatkins has not.

I mean i'm not sure i want any part of it where we add expensive FA to this core and JD, Stroman, Sanchez all collpase and die. We're worse off than we are now. Also hopefully we can get off the EE over Morales thing. It would not have mattered. The reason to be pissed is that they still treaded water going into 2018 thinking that upgrading on Goins and Barney was enough with cheap depth and chasing a WC2 at absolute best case scenario.

 

[Wayward DP]

I mean i'm not sure i want any part of it where we add expensive FA to this core and JD, Stroman, Sanchez all collpase and die. We're worse off than we are now. Also hopefully we can get off the EE over Morales thing. It would not have mattered. The reason to be pissed is that they still treaded water going into 2018 thinking that upgrading on Goins and Barney was enough with cheap depth and chasing a WC2 at absolute best case scenario.

if they were going to rebuild, they should have fully committed to it from day one. I mean, I still would have been pissed cause the roster was a playoff roster, but at least it would be clear what they're working towards.

if they were going to try and extend the team's legitimate window of contention, they should have committed fully to that from day one. instead, they just treaded water and wasted the competitive window while failing to recoup value from their assets.

it was shit management no matter how you cut it. and nothing in either of their track records gives me even an iota of confidence in their ability going forward.

 

[CaptainBolduke]

My issues with these guys is not that they didn't keep going for it in 2016, having more big money contracts on this roster would not be useful at the moment. My problem is that the rebuild didn't start sooner and they ended up getting pennies on the dollar for Osuna and Donaldson. If i had faith in these guys to do two things it would be evaluate talent ( which, honestly they have with good buy lows on Grichuk/Diaz and a lot of their draft picks) and to get value during the tear down. They bungled that with this trash half in half out approach signing shitty vets like Morales, Garcia, Grandy etc, none of which will put a dent in the AL playoff structure, nor does it help you rebuild.

Maybe Rogers wouldn't let them sell, in fact it's probably god damn likely and Shatkins are just as irritated as I am, but i'm at the point where i no longer care about seperating Rogers/Managment. One is a cheap ass owner only interested in using the team as a marketing arm, the other is a group of bean counting, arrogant suits that think they can win without spending money because they are smarter than everyone else.

Shapiro was irritated that he inherited a very good team in 2016. Pretty sure he wanted and was expecting the mediocre pre-2015 trade deadline team.

He was unable to or just simply refused to maintain the buzz that AA created.

 

[CaptainBolduke]

their talent evaluation in free agency has sucked donkey balls. and this whole barely tread water till you drown approach is also excruciating. and I don't care if it was ownership or them. AA convinced ownership to try and win. Shatkins has not.

See --- they didn't even really tread water. The Jays were complete shit in 2017 and 2018. And now are worse somehow....

Shatkins has been terrible here. It's simply hasn't worked.

 

[HabsFan1]

This is going to be a train wreck. Even Vladdy won’t be able to make us win. He will waste the first years of his career as a jay and they go elsewhere.

 

[CaptainBolduke]

This is going to be a train wreck. Even Vladdy won’t be able to make us win. He will waste the first years of his career as a jay and they go elsewhere.

A major key is if this team will go back to a 150 (plus) million dollar payroll (like they have been the recent years). If they do, they might be able to squeeze one or two competitive years out of the Vladdy's cheap and controllable years.

There is simply very little chance the Blue Jays sign Vladdy to a long-tern contract. He projects to be the type of player that only a few select teams in baseball will be able to afford.

 

[JackBurton]

Shapiro was irritated that he inherited a very good team in 2016. Pretty sure he wanted and was expecting the mediocre pre-2015 trade deadline team.

He was unable to or just simply refused to maintain the buzz that AA created.

You talk about just horrible timing, and Shatkins joining the Jays in 2015 was just the worst. He was supposed to tear it down and build it up. They were never supposed to make the playoffs and it completely changed his plans.

 

[zeke]

the thing is they have every chance of building a good team eventually.

I'll just never forgive them for not appreciating what they inherited in the first place.

 

[UWHabs]

the thing is they have every chance of building a good team eventually.

I'll just never forgive them for not appreciating what they inherited in the first place.

Yep. There was the window after the first playoff series, where an extra 10-20M could have made such a difference to the team.

The prospect pool is still pretty solid. Vlad alone may not save the team, but Vlad+Bichette+the rest have a chance. So yeah, maybe Vlad bolts when he hits FA, but that's still 7 years from now. We still have a chance in the meantime to build back up, especially if the team starts looking decent and the payroll goes back to where it was.

 

[MyNameIsJonas]

if they were going to rebuild, they should have fully committed to it from day one. I mean, I still would have been pissed cause the roster was a playoff roster, but at least it would be clear what they're working towards.

if they were going to try and extend the team's legitimate window of contention, they should have committed fully to that from day one. instead, they just treaded water and wasted the competitive window while failing to recoup value from their assets.

it was shit management no matter how you cut it. and nothing in either of their track records gives me even an iota of confidence in their ability going forward.

Going for it in 2017 was fair, as they were coming off b2b ALCS, even though they did nothing in free agency, a sell job would have been really bad optics, but in the Winter of that year you hold the fire sale on Osuna and Donaldson and get max value.

 

[MyNameIsJonas]

the thing is they have every chance of building a good team eventually.

I'll just never forgive them for not appreciating what they inherited in the first place.

It's absolutely fair to be pissed they didn't do anything after 2015, but, payroll stayed the same, so i assume that's mostly on Rogers.

The lack of a proper teardown is the biggest transgression though.

 

[MyNameIsJonas]

Shapiro was irritated that he inherited a very good team in 2016. Pretty sure he wanted and was expecting the mediocre pre-2015 trade deadline team.

He was unable to or just simply refused to maintain the buzz that AA created.

Do me a favour and anytime you want to mentioned the word buzz, dont.

 

[MindzEye]

It's absolutely fair to be pissed they didn't do anything after 2015, but, payroll stayed the same, so i assume that's mostly on Rogers.

That didn't help, but low payroll teams find a way to improve all the time. Wasn't that supposed to be part of the thesis behind why hiring Shapiro was a good thing? That he was used to competing with less financial resources than his competition?

The lack of a proper teardown is the biggest transgression though.

Nah, it's that a tear down was only necessary because of a shitty plan. The talent generations could have been bridged like we've seen done by a number of good teams over the last decade. That was never the plan though, he wanted his tear down, but didn't have the balls to do it properly and piss the fans off.