OT: The Toronto Blue Jays
- Thread starter PlayerToBeNamedLater
- Start date
MON4NHLTOR4MLB
Well-known member
Trading a top 10 prospect for a barely .200 hitting defender is going to be a fireable offence if team and Varsho continue to struggle
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
It was a bad trade from the onset imo. So much of his value was tied up in his right field defence....so we play him in left field where it means nothing. I don't see him continuing forever as a 80 wrc+ bat, but I never saw much of an argument for him being any better than 110 either. That's basically a 2-2.5 WAR LF.
Meh.
Needed to trade a catcher, but should have been Jansen or Kirk.
UWHabs
Well-known member
Looking back, cashing in on Kirk would have been the best move, but that always was the impossible decision.
I'm willing to give it some time, but the team needs Varsho to turn it around just to give them the deep lineup they were supposed to have. Their offense has been bad even with Chapman and KK being massively better than you ever would expect.
manny
Well-known member
Should have traded Kirk or just kept them all (keep them all was my vote).
Kirk could be a full-time DH. I like his D actually, but I’d like to see if his bat could be good again if he didn’t have to catch regularly. Moreno is probably athletic enough to play part-time somewhere else. Jansen is probably my favorite but he’s a decent bet to spend half the season on the DL so having two other C is probably a good thing anyway.
Kirk could be a full-time DH. I like his D actually, but I’d like to see if his bat could be good again if he didn’t have to catch regularly. Moreno is probably athletic enough to play part-time somewhere else. Jansen is probably my favorite but he’s a decent bet to spend half the season on the DL so having two other C is probably a good thing anyway.
axlsalinger
Well-known member
Springer has a stronger arm, that's why they put him in right field.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
But then why trade for a right fielder with a mediocre bat and tons of value tied up in his right field glove? Just keep Teoscar, slot him in LF (where his glove isn't a big deal at all) and keep it moving?
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Yeah, that's good point. KK has been fantastic, but it was hardly a given that he was going to turn out to be an impact everyday guy at his age. Varsho grades as an above average defensive CF.
axlsalinger
Well-known member
i think the idea was to split time in CF, there was no guarantee KK would be this good, plus he's been injured a lot the last few years and on a 1-year deal. varsho probably slots into CF next year, though they could bring KK back.
i'm sure they expected some improvement with the bat from Varsho as well. A .190/.207 ISO the last 2 years suggests more power is coming based on this year's .153.
i was never in love with the trade though it did make sense to move one of the three C's. Definitely need more from Varsho at the plate though.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Only counter point here is that Varsho's issue effecting the upside with his stick was contact quality driven. We're talking about a guy who had hit roughly a combined .240 the previous 2 seasons combined with an 8-9% BB rate. We weren't talking about a guy with excellent command of the plate who just hadn't put it all together. He had pretty mid level batted ball numbers. Pedestrian as fuck average EV, pretty terrible hard hit%.
The only thing in his favour coming into the season was the change in ballparks tbh.
But when you look into the batted ball & stat cast data prior to his arrival, it tells a story of a guy who doesn't make a ton of good contact.
axlsalinger
Well-known member
change in park plus some extra hits for LHB. his avg EV is mediocre, max EV is elite though. Statcast #'s don't look great so far, though BB/K percentages are fine and BABIP is low. Still a young guy with a lot of power - let's hope there's still another level.
i think i heard Dan say yesterday the Jays were on a run of hitting 3-35 with RISP - 2-15 yesterday (not sure if that included some of the 35). Obviously this is a team-wide slump at the plate, which happens to everyone from time to time. Too good a group of hitters to last for long.
also people need to understand that the Orioles aren't going anywhere. Hired a new management group a couple of years back, this is a well-run organization with a bunch of prospects on the brink. They're good now.
i think i heard Dan say yesterday the Jays were on a run of hitting 3-35 with RISP - 2-15 yesterday (not sure if that included some of the 35). Obviously this is a team-wide slump at the plate, which happens to everyone from time to time. Too good a group of hitters to last for long.
also people need to understand that the Orioles aren't going anywhere. Hired a new management group a couple of years back, this is a well-run organization with a bunch of prospects on the brink. They're good now.
