The 2019-2020 MotherFucking Season Thread
- Thread starter zeke
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Volcanologist
Well-known member
So now both our coach and GM have announced the team has no identity. awesome.
I don't know why I keep running up to this football again and again.
I don't know why I keep running up to this football again and again.
leafman101
Well-known member
leaffan2005
Well-known member
Dubas has been a pretty big failure thus far as the GM. Same with Babcock.
Methinks those clamoring for Lou to be sent off may have jumped the gun. He has done a good job with the Islanders identifying the head coach and goaltending position as priorities and surrounding the talent he inherited with guys who can skate and play tough defensive hockey. Maybe Dubas is a little green and doesn't get team building as more than just a spreadsheet science. Strictly having soft, flashy forwards doesn't seem to be working. And sure maybe Babs getting canned gives the team a temporary boost but you can't teach an old dog new tricks. I have my reservations that a guy like Keefe or anybody else will suddenly make our players less stupid with the puck. But at this point it's worth a try because a few more weeks of this and we become bottom feeders real quick.
Methinks those clamoring for Lou to be sent off may have jumped the gun. He has done a good job with the Islanders identifying the head coach and goaltending position as priorities and surrounding the talent he inherited with guys who can skate and play tough defensive hockey. Maybe Dubas is a little green and doesn't get team building as more than just a spreadsheet science. Strictly having soft, flashy forwards doesn't seem to be working. And sure maybe Babs getting canned gives the team a temporary boost but you can't teach an old dog new tricks. I have my reservations that a guy like Keefe or anybody else will suddenly make our players less stupid with the puck. But at this point it's worth a try because a few more weeks of this and we become bottom feeders real quick.
Leafin'
Well-known member
Hot take if I've ever seen one leaffan.
I kinda agree with the comment about spreadsheets. I think we've gone too far away from what makes sports fun; actual feel for a game.
Our team is soft as baby shit. Our coach is a dinosaur that wants to grind wins. There is clearly a disconnect between the way the coach wants the team to play and how we actually play. The usage rates in seeing for our guys is infuriating. How the fuck do you explain Hyman having more ice time than Matthews?
My personal opinion is that we are way too soft to be effective in the playoffs. Other teams can regularly run our guys without worry. If you've ever played a sport you'd know that has a significant effect on you. Confidence is everything. And if the only confidence that you have is that you can get retribution on the PP than you're missing the fact that the majority of the game is played 5v5.
And no my solution isn't to have one plug that can fight. It's to have someone on every line that can provide an element the rest of the linemates don't have; grit. Are we really expecting to ice a lineup of offensively gifted player? That includes the defense. Barrie isn't the guy this defense needed. We needed a guy to play with Rielly and provide what he doesn't: defense.
I kinda agree with the comment about spreadsheets. I think we've gone too far away from what makes sports fun; actual feel for a game.
Our team is soft as baby shit. Our coach is a dinosaur that wants to grind wins. There is clearly a disconnect between the way the coach wants the team to play and how we actually play. The usage rates in seeing for our guys is infuriating. How the fuck do you explain Hyman having more ice time than Matthews?
My personal opinion is that we are way too soft to be effective in the playoffs. Other teams can regularly run our guys without worry. If you've ever played a sport you'd know that has a significant effect on you. Confidence is everything. And if the only confidence that you have is that you can get retribution on the PP than you're missing the fact that the majority of the game is played 5v5.
And no my solution isn't to have one plug that can fight. It's to have someone on every line that can provide an element the rest of the linemates don't have; grit. Are we really expecting to ice a lineup of offensively gifted player? That includes the defense. Barrie isn't the guy this defense needed. We needed a guy to play with Rielly and provide what he doesn't: defense.
hockeylover
Well-known member
Dubas was successful at the OHL level, but everyone beneath him bought in. His system and philosophy have been successful at the AHL level, and again, everyone bought in.
He deserves a chance to pick his own coach, IMO. And this year should have been that year. If you weren’t willing to trust him to put his own guys in place, you shouldn’t have picked him to take over in the first place.
But I don’t miss Lou.
He deserves a chance to pick his own coach, IMO. And this year should have been that year. If you weren’t willing to trust him to put his own guys in place, you shouldn’t have picked him to take over in the first place.
But I don’t miss Lou.
No67
Member
Babcock on Barrie:
A guy like Tyson Barrie hasn’t had the first 20 games he expected and he has said to us he’s lost that confidence now. What do you to get that back?
Babcock: He and I have talked a lot about that. Number one, Barrs is all in all the time. He is a competitive guy. He wants to be good. His game is about instincts. What I mean by that is his hockey sense is elite, so he’s got to play loose and driving and jumping.
mapleleafshotstove.com
A guy like Tyson Barrie hasn’t had the first 20 games he expected and he has said to us he’s lost that confidence now. What do you to get that back?
Babcock: He and I have talked a lot about that. Number one, Barrs is all in all the time. He is a competitive guy. He wants to be good. His game is about instincts. What I mean by that is his hockey sense is elite, so he’s got to play loose and driving and jumping.
Mike Babcock on Tyson Barrie: "His hockey sense is elite, so he's got to play loose and driving and jumping... I am betting on him just because of his past and how competitive he is"
Mike Babcock addressed the media on Thursday, discussing the team meeting held instead of practice, Tyson Barrie’s early struggles, the special teams issues, and the positives through 20 games. Three games, four nights — was today a good day not to be on the ice, to meet and reflect for the next...
mapleleafshotstove.com
No67
Member
Dubas on Ceci:
Dubas: Cody is an interesting one. Frankly speaking, I think it goes back to the war between data and subjective scouting. He seems to be a really polarizing player. I think it has been interesting — even when everything underlying about him has been relatively solid, especially when you consider his usage, it seems that every tiny thing he does becomes the referendum on whether he is good or not. That is mindboggling to me because if that would have been done by subjective oriented people in the past, the objective people would have jumped all over it. Now the inverse seems to be happening and it seems to be Cody that is the player it is happening about.
Every defenseman that plays that much and plays in that role is going to have mistakes. You play against the best players in the league — they’re good players — and every defenseman, no matter how good you are, from time to time, you are not going to look your best. I think he has been a good addition for us and he has played above expectations from when we acquired him. We are very happy with him.
mapleleafshotstove.com
Dubas: Cody is an interesting one. Frankly speaking, I think it goes back to the war between data and subjective scouting. He seems to be a really polarizing player. I think it has been interesting — even when everything underlying about him has been relatively solid, especially when you consider his usage, it seems that every tiny thing he does becomes the referendum on whether he is good or not. That is mindboggling to me because if that would have been done by subjective oriented people in the past, the objective people would have jumped all over it. Now the inverse seems to be happening and it seems to be Cody that is the player it is happening about.
Every defenseman that plays that much and plays in that role is going to have mistakes. You play against the best players in the league — they’re good players — and every defenseman, no matter how good you are, from time to time, you are not going to look your best. I think he has been a good addition for us and he has played above expectations from when we acquired him. We are very happy with him.
Kyle Dubas on the Toronto Maple Leafs' team identity: "I would say it is still in formation... We are aiming towards is a team built on speed, talent, and creativity but also tenaciousness when we don't have the puck"
Kyle Dubas addressed the media after a closed-door team meeting was held in lieu of practice on Thursday. How do you feel the team has dealt with the early adversity? Dubas: I think we’ve talked about it as a group right from the start of training camp. You always want to know how your group […]
mapleleafshotstove.com
WellPlayed
Well-known member
Well maybe Barrie is just fucking lost then.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Or maybe Babcock is just being Babcock. The man loves to hear himself talk and though he pretends to get frustrated with it, has never seen a camera he didn't like.
Babcock's mouth is saying he's gotta play with instinct, but his actions are saying "as long as he stands exactly where I tell him to stand while he does it".
Babcock's mouth is saying he's gotta play with instinct, but his actions are saying "as long as he stands exactly where I tell him to stand while he does it".
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
It’s hard to believe that Dubas would let this year go by, and let Barrie and Muzzin go, basically without even really knowing what they can do. Is Barrie actually lost or has Babs kidnapped him? Only one way to find out, and if we keep treading water for much longer, I don’t think Babs survives.
uncus
Well-known member
What this team needs is a chara ..... or a tucker or two.
These are still just kids and being or playing rough isnt in their tool box YET.
Nylander and marner wiĺl never ever play tough hockey ...... and they shouldnt have to.
The defence isnt hard enough on the opps while defending .... then get a dman that can contribute with muzzin and holl.
It's pretty simple .... either you turn a johnsson or kappy into a backup and a take no prisoners player that can play on the top 3 lines.
Or a back up and a top 4 dman that has a sadistic side lol.
This is still a young young team.
This team doesnt have the nurses, charas or even the Martin's to scare the crap out of the other players.
Imagine how the marner Matthew's and nylanders feel .... first season or two they have Matt Martin on the bench for anyone that takes liberties with them .... and then they have the whole league taking liberties.
Being tough isnt something that can be learned or taught to anyone .... you either have the prey drive, i will destroy anything in my way, or you have the lap dog feed me mentality.
You cant teach toughness if the heart isnt willing to take that beating to break through.
All I know is if this team doesnt make the playoffs ... i can see two main players going babcock on a different island and dubas swimming for any life boat available
These are still just kids and being or playing rough isnt in their tool box YET.
Nylander and marner wiĺl never ever play tough hockey ...... and they shouldnt have to.
The defence isnt hard enough on the opps while defending .... then get a dman that can contribute with muzzin and holl.
It's pretty simple .... either you turn a johnsson or kappy into a backup and a take no prisoners player that can play on the top 3 lines.
Or a back up and a top 4 dman that has a sadistic side lol.
This is still a young young team.
This team doesnt have the nurses, charas or even the Martin's to scare the crap out of the other players.
Imagine how the marner Matthew's and nylanders feel .... first season or two they have Matt Martin on the bench for anyone that takes liberties with them .... and then they have the whole league taking liberties.
Being tough isnt something that can be learned or taught to anyone .... you either have the prey drive, i will destroy anything in my way, or you have the lap dog feed me mentality.
You cant teach toughness if the heart isnt willing to take that beating to break through.
All I know is if this team doesnt make the playoffs ... i can see two main players going babcock on a different island and dubas swimming for any life boat available
uncus
Well-known member
I agree that Babcock is a problem but the players have to take responsibility for their lackluster play.
Babcocks coaching is an obvious problem and should be dealt with, but dubas has done nothing to address obvious concerns.
Even the biggest dubas supporters have to admit that this team is way to soft and to easily neutralized.
The starting on time has nothing to do with the coaching and everything to do with the players.
Yes we can attribute the schematics and play calling on the coaching staff .... but one really has to start to wonder what is that dubas wants to build here.
If he wants the flashy little sports car that can run around the track at incredible speeds than fine .... we know he is a fan of the ottawa project from years ago.
But if he wants a Stanley cup ... then he better start building that truck that has the hemi and can move but can also slug through the mud and plow through the storms which are commonly called the Stanley cup playoffs.
This team continually shoots itself in the foot...
Even a peewee player knows that it is smart to get it deep into the offensive zone in the last minute of a game.
Even an atom player knows that the puck travels faster than a player on skates so pass it or dump it in because turnovers at the blue line are killing this team.
And finally, even a bantam player knows that if I cheat and leave the zone to early, it leaves my defencmen in a lurch and no place to exit the zone without trying the stretch pass which leaves the leafs icing the puck at least 60 percent of the time.
Stretch pass is beautiful when it works .... but it doesnt work very often.
And why the hell does babcock put out the 4th line after the leafs have scored a goal???? Talk about wind coming out the sails .....
I wonder what a pat Quinn would have done with this team .... we all know he would have twisted dubas's head off if he didnt bring in the domi's, truckers and corson's.
Too bad simmonds wasnt on this team .... yaya he has slowed down and he isnt worth what he wants ... a player like him could be the catalyst that puts everything in order.
Jmo
Babcocks coaching is an obvious problem and should be dealt with, but dubas has done nothing to address obvious concerns.
Even the biggest dubas supporters have to admit that this team is way to soft and to easily neutralized.
The starting on time has nothing to do with the coaching and everything to do with the players.
Yes we can attribute the schematics and play calling on the coaching staff .... but one really has to start to wonder what is that dubas wants to build here.
If he wants the flashy little sports car that can run around the track at incredible speeds than fine .... we know he is a fan of the ottawa project from years ago.
But if he wants a Stanley cup ... then he better start building that truck that has the hemi and can move but can also slug through the mud and plow through the storms which are commonly called the Stanley cup playoffs.
This team continually shoots itself in the foot...
Even a peewee player knows that it is smart to get it deep into the offensive zone in the last minute of a game.
Even an atom player knows that the puck travels faster than a player on skates so pass it or dump it in because turnovers at the blue line are killing this team.
And finally, even a bantam player knows that if I cheat and leave the zone to early, it leaves my defencmen in a lurch and no place to exit the zone without trying the stretch pass which leaves the leafs icing the puck at least 60 percent of the time.
Stretch pass is beautiful when it works .... but it doesnt work very often.
And why the hell does babcock put out the 4th line after the leafs have scored a goal???? Talk about wind coming out the sails .....
I wonder what a pat Quinn would have done with this team .... we all know he would have twisted dubas's head off if he didnt bring in the domi's, truckers and corson's.
Too bad simmonds wasnt on this team .... yaya he has slowed down and he isnt worth what he wants ... a player like him could be the catalyst that puts everything in order.
Jmo
uncus
Well-known member
Lol. Btw ..... cherry picking time lol.
I love how cherry talks a tough guy game and likes to wax nostalgic about his time on the ice ....
But I remember a time when he was spouting off about the leafs and certain players as well as Quinn, and from my understanding is that Quinn, came after cherry either during a game or after a game and tried to bust down the door to get at cherry.
Well cherry hid in the back and kept yelling I am an old man. You want to beat up on an old man ..... so there is your tough guy lol.
Note to cherry ...... the gravy train is over.
I love how cherry talks a tough guy game and likes to wax nostalgic about his time on the ice ....
But I remember a time when he was spouting off about the leafs and certain players as well as Quinn, and from my understanding is that Quinn, came after cherry either during a game or after a game and tried to bust down the door to get at cherry.
Well cherry hid in the back and kept yelling I am an old man. You want to beat up on an old man ..... so there is your tough guy lol.
Note to cherry ...... the gravy train is over.
LeafGm
Well-known member
There's definitely nothing I'd love to add to this team more than a prime Tucker or Quinn-era Gary Roberts. But guys that can play that style while also keeping up with the modern NHL are so damn rare. You pretty much have to find them in the draft. Otherwise, you only choice is to massively overpay for them in a trade, or sign them as a UFA for big money when they're broken down and barely NHL players anymore (like Simmonds now).
In their absence though, a 4th line plug like Martin isn't the answer. And I don't really buy the theory that he prevented anybody from taking "liberties" with any of our young stars either. Not when he's barely ever on the ice at the same time as them, and playing 10 minutes of less per game. And not when there isn't anyone who'll drop the gloves with him anymore either.
And before declaring that Dubas's preferred style can't win, I'd like to see what it looks like with a coach who's actually willing to implement it, instead of fighting against it every step of the way. Maybe it still won't work, but I'd sure love to have the opportunity to find out.
As for Babcock's usage of the 4th line...yeah, I don't get it. Putting them out there right after a goal. Putting them out there for the last minute of a period, often at home when we've got the last change. And his strategy of making them eat such a large portion of our defensive zone starts.
I wonder if that actually hurts our top-3 lines. The top-two lines, and any line with Kapanen on it are so dangerous when they're counter-attacking and rushing the puck up the ice. But if you're starting them in the offensive zone a huge amount of the time, you're taking that out of their toolbox.
That's hilarious if true. By all reports, Pat Quinn was definitely not a guy to fuck with.
Loved that man.
In their absence though, a 4th line plug like Martin isn't the answer. And I don't really buy the theory that he prevented anybody from taking "liberties" with any of our young stars either. Not when he's barely ever on the ice at the same time as them, and playing 10 minutes of less per game. And not when there isn't anyone who'll drop the gloves with him anymore either.
And before declaring that Dubas's preferred style can't win, I'd like to see what it looks like with a coach who's actually willing to implement it, instead of fighting against it every step of the way. Maybe it still won't work, but I'd sure love to have the opportunity to find out.
As for Babcock's usage of the 4th line...yeah, I don't get it. Putting them out there right after a goal. Putting them out there for the last minute of a period, often at home when we've got the last change. And his strategy of making them eat such a large portion of our defensive zone starts.
I wonder if that actually hurts our top-3 lines. The top-two lines, and any line with Kapanen on it are so dangerous when they're counter-attacking and rushing the puck up the ice. But if you're starting them in the offensive zone a huge amount of the time, you're taking that out of their toolbox.
That's hilarious if true. By all reports, Pat Quinn was definitely not a guy to fuck with.
Loved that man.
Leafin'
Well-known member
Didn't the Marlies also have a few face mashers in the lineup? Marchment? Clune?
Matrim
Well-known member
Clune never played he's basically an extra trainer that can play if needed. Marchment is someone the Leafs should look for at the NHL level, someone who can play up and down the lineup but has that physical edge. Wouldn't mind giving Marchment a shot if more injuries happen.