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The Fucking Season Thread - Redemption Tour '22

MindzEye said:
Heavy matchup pairings are over rated imo.

Not that having someone you can trust is bad, but the excessive matching of them is imo. Being able to spread the love a little bit (basically...don't have a shit 3rd pairing and a defensively allergic OZ pairing) is big. With Brodie & Holl both being good enough to babysit in limited heavy usage, I'd be happy with that.

Also...I trust old Gio more than I trust this older, slower, less durable version of Muzzin.
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Well in the pairings you listed Gio-Lilly is the only pair I'd want on the ice against the Bergeron line, for example. When you've got a top 4 with Rielly, you're gonna rely on the other top 4 pairing to go up against the top lines, difficult zone starts, less time with Matthews, etc. full stop. It works for most teams and there's nothing wrong with that setup, but you have no choice really. This current d corps is a bit of a different monster where you can throw Rielly on the third pair, but that's obviously because of the deadline and getting Gio with salary retention and whatnot.

As for Gio vs Muzzin, idk. Depends on whether Muzzin really has declined significantly. It has been a choppy year for him and maybe that's the norm moving forward. He has been reallllly realllly good as a Leaf though. Most underappreciated Leafs d since Beauchemin.
 
Preston said:
Well in the pairings you listed Gio-Lilly is the only pair I'd want on the ice against the Bergeron line, for example. When you've got a top 4 with Rielly, you're gonna rely on the other top 4 pairing to go up against the top lines, full stop. It works for most teams and there's nothing wrong with that setup, but you have no choice really.
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You're a bit of a loon about this whole Rielly thing. He handled our heavies for years by putting the puck in the other end of the ice 55-57% of the time. He pinches too much (which is as much our system as it is him) and isn't great at off the puck coverage but he's never been worse than average defensively against real competition. This isn't to say that I want him taking DZ faceoff duty against the Bergeron line like he used to, but the idea that he can't handle a handful of shifts a night against heavy competition is some weird fiction you've created about the guy over the last year or so.

Preston said:
As for Gio vs Muzzin, idk. Depends on whether Muzzin really has declined significantly. It has been a choppy year for him and maybe that's the norm moving forward. He has been reallllly realllly good as a Leaf though. Most underappreciated Leafs d since Beauchemin.
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He's lost a step in his already limited mobility, had patches of play completely unlike what we've seen from him before (almost fucking unplayable at times...granted, in heavy usage, but there's little point of keeping him around at 5.6 million if he isn't eating the heavies) and is clearly less durable. Even if he's better than Gio at this point (highly debateable) he's going to be ~2-3x more expensive and has two years left of money that would be better spent up front. Whether that's on a Kerfoot replacement in the top 6, or even just keeping the 3rd line together for a few more years.
 
wouldn't shock me if Muzz is our best overall D in the playoffs... I'm not convinced he's done yet. he has been without a doubt our best all-around d-man since we acquired him (sorry LOF).

having said that, if Gio wants to stay on a cheaper deal in the offseason...
 
Muzzin has taken a step back this year, but obviously he missed most of this ridiculous run which boosted everyone's numbers back up, so he probably would have also benefited from that. Health is the big concern with him at this point.

Much less of a concern when he is arguably your #4/5 (behind Rielly, Brodie, Lilly).

Also Sandin and Lilly should see expanded roles moving forward. I highly doubt they get caught in Dermott 3rd pair purgatory.
 
MindzEye said:
You're a bit of a loon about this whole Rielly thing. He handled our heavies for years by putting the puck in the other end of the ice 55-57% of the time. He pinches too much (which is as much our system as it is him) and isn't great at off the puck coverage but he's never been worse than average defensively against real competition. This isn't to say that I want him taking DZ faceoff duty against the Bergeron line like he used to, but the idea that he can't handle a handful of shifts a night against heavy competition is some weird fiction you've created about the guy over the last year or so.
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Oh yeah, a handful of shifts is fine. And the Leafs do a great job of getting him ample time with Matthews too; because you don't have to worry about him defensively when he's busy hemming the opposition in and creating offence with Matthews and Marner. It's all by design of course. The Leafs have done quite well putting him in positions to succeed over the years because he absolutely eats that shit alive way more than a Muzzin or Brodie would, for example (creating ideal matchups for him does not make him a worse player than Brodie or Muzzin; they're just different players with different strengths and weaknesses). Ozone starts, shifts with Matthews, keeping him away from Bergeron-type lines as much as possible, paired up with an elite defensive d like Brodie, etc. is all great stuff. Nothing wrong with it, and many teams have a guy like that on one of their top 2 pairs. Leafs just happen to have a guy that drives offence there better than most teams.


As for Gio vs Muzzin.. I'm on board with the flip. I'd just be slightly concerned with their dcorps next year. But who cares about next year anyway?
 
leafman101 said:
Muzzin has taken a step back this year, but obviously he missed most of this ridiculous run which boosted everyone's numbers back up, so he probably would have also benefited from that. Health is the big concern with him at this point.

Much less of a concern when he is arguably your #4/5 (behind Rielly, Brodie, Lilly).

Also Sandin and Lilly should see expanded roles moving forward. I highly doubt they get caught in Dermott 3rd pair purgatory.
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That's a big part of it...we have to pay Lilly and Sandin something now. We can bridge them for less if we want, but we've seen a lot of teams do shit like that over the last bunch of years and come to regret it. We know both are very good, we know both are a massive part of our future blueline, just get them locked in for 4-6 years each and let's keep it moving.

Muzzin has taken a step back (a step back from outstanding is still very good), has struggled with durability for a few years now. Just turned 33. As a general rule, players don't get better and more durable as they round the corner into the last few years of their career. They get worse and less durable.
 
Muzzin has lost a half step no doubt. but he is the only dman we have the opponent really worries about.

Dubas is looking ahead though. Lindholm preferred the Bruins organization but he was our #1 target at the deadline.
 
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