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The LeGoalie vs BKerr eternal debate about hybrid goalies

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Re: The OTHER Habs' Goalies & General Goalie Stuff

I also never said that hasek was lucky.... he was an outstanding goalie. One of the best ever.

I'm just saying his success has more to do with freak athletic ability than it does with technical prowess when we compare him to Brodeur who the best technically of the goalies that legoalie wants to label as hybrid.

I say that the differences in technique between Brodeur and Hasek are so great, that there should be even another classification for what Hasek is doing.

The differences between Brodeur and Hasek are as great as the differences between Roy and Dryden, guys considered Butterfly and Standup goalies.
 
Re: The OTHER Habs' Goalies & General Goalie Stuff

i cannot believe krusty started this thread
 
Re: The OTHER Habs' Goalies & General Goalie Stuff

in 2012....everything was different back then
 
Re: The OTHER Habs' Goalies & General Goalie Stuff

I also never said that hasek was lucky.... he was an outstanding goalie. One of the best ever.

I'm just saying his success has more to do with freak athletic ability than it does with technical prowess when we compare him to Brodeur who the best technically of the goalies that legoalie wants to label as hybrid.

I say that the differences in technique between Brodeur and Hasek are so great, that there should be even another classification for what Hasek is doing.


The differences between Brodeur and Hasek are as great as the differences between Roy and Dryden, guys considered Butterfly and Standup goalies.

I didn't label him as a hybrid goalie because I did not coin the name Hybrid goalie. I wish I had that kind of pull, the name of the style was started because of the two guys you keep saying are totally different, brodeur and hasek.. they are the grandfathers of this style.. if you don't like them being in that class, lobby for a change with the NHL and brass .. good luck
 
Re: The OTHER Habs' Goalies & General Goalie Stuff

Im pretty sure we were terrible by that time anyway.
 
Re: The OTHER Habs' Goalies & General Goalie Stuff

I didn't label him as a hybrid goalie because I did not coin the name Hybrid goalie. I wish I had that kind of pull, the name of the style was started because of the two guys you keep saying are totally different, brodeur and hasek.. they are the grandfathers of this style.. if you don't like them being in that class, lobby for a change with the NHL and brass .. good luck

that was me

youre welcome
 
Re: The OTHER Habs' Goalies & General Goalie Stuff

You don't have to coin the term... .you just refuse to acknowledge the fact that there can be differences between Brodeur and Hasek, and that they are not using the same fundamentals despite both being labelled as Hybrids.
 
Re: The OTHER Habs' Goalies & General Goalie Stuff

You don't have to coin the term... .you just refuse to acknowledge the fact that there can be differences between Brodeur and Hasek, and that they are not using the same fundamentals despite both being labelled as Hybrids.

I guess you don't own a house.. when you buy one look for the fundamentals of a house because they are the same no matter WHAT style you want; I never said there wasn't a difference between the two, never once, I have maintained and always will that they both use the SAME fundamentals of goaltending and are both sound at using those fundamentals , you can't wrap your head around what the fundamentals are..
 
Re: The OTHER Habs' Goalies & General Goalie Stuff

There is more to fundamentals than you think

Can both skate? sure....

Are they both holding their glove in the same place... spreading their legs apart the same amount... in the same crouch?

Do they have the same lateral movement when just tracking the play? No

What about when they need to go post to post quickly on a one-timer attempt? No, Brodeur is gonna stack the pads, hasek is gonna flop...

Do they both have the same puckhandling ability? Nope, not even close.


So no... they are not the same fundamentals.

There are many things that make up fundamentals... and while some might be the same... the vast majority between brodeur and hasek are different.





To go to your house example... .sure every house has a concrete foundation here in Canada.

But a house in a place like Louisiana or Hawaii might not have a basement. A skyscraper might have steel and glass for walls, a house can have bricks or concrete, or siding, etc.... it can have a slanted roof or a square one. These are all part of the fundamentals, but not the foundation.

Fundamentals and foundation are not the same thing.
 
Re: The OTHER Habs' Goalies & General Goalie Stuff

Ben, Ben, you really don't know, the more you say the more it shows, ie: stickhandling is not a fundamental of goaltending ; you should read what I posted about Hasek, especially the part where Ray Emery addresses actually what you say about Hasek... you are confusing style with fundamentals , give it up..
 
Re: The OTHER Habs' Goalies & General Goalie Stuff

There is more to fundamentals than you think

Can both skate? sure....

Are they both holding their glove in the same place... spreading their legs apart the same amount... in the same crouch?

Do they have the same lateral movement when just tracking the play? No

What about when they need to go post to post quickly on a one-timer attempt? No, Brodeur is gonna stack the pads, hasek is gonna flop...

Do they both have the same puckhandling ability? Nope, not even close.


So no... they are not the same fundamentals.

There are many things that make up fundamentals... and while some might be the same... the vast majority between brodeur and hasek are different.





To go to your house example... .sure every house has a concrete foundation here in Canada.

But a house in a place like Louisiana or Hawaii might not have a basement. A skyscraper might have steel and glass for walls, a house can have bricks or concrete, or siding, etc.... it can have a slanted roof or a square one. These are all part of the fundamentals, but not the foundation.

Fundamentals and foundation are not the same thing
.

Missed this, OH yes they are.. http://comminfo.rutgers.edu/~byrnejg/goalbasics/index.html
 
Re: The OTHER Habs' Goalies & General Goalie Stuff

There is more to fundamentals than you think

Can both skate? sure....

Are they both holding their glove in the same place... spreading their legs apart the same amount... in the same crouch? This is a myth, the butterfly goalie stance where the glove is hel high is very rarely being taught anymore

Do they have the same lateral movement when just tracking the play? Yes they do, another one of your myths

What about when they need to go post to post quickly on a one-timer attempt? No, Brodeur is gonna stack the pads, hasek is gonna flop...another myth of yours, both do both, hence Hybrid .again read what Emery says about Hasek

Do they both have the same puckhandling ability? Nope, not even close. That doesn't matter.. it isn't a fundamental , it is an asset


So no... they are not the same fundamentals.

There are many things that make up fundamentals... and while some might be the same... the vast majority between brodeur and hasek are different. STYLE





To go to your house example... .sure every house has a concrete foundation here in Canada.

But a house in a place like Louisiana or Hawaii might not have a basement. A skyscraper might have steel and glass for walls, a house can have bricks or concrete, or siding, etc.... it can have a slanted roof or a square one. These are all part of the fundamentals, but not the foundation. oh brother - are you serious? it doesn't matter if a house has a basement or not, they still require a foundation, ..if it has glass walls (envelope) which is usually attached to steel or concrete, it still has to be sound.. duh so what if it has a slant roof or a pickle roof, the style doesn't matter.. are you this dense in court?? this is just asinine



Fundamentals and foundation are not the same thing.


there you go, i fixed it for you
 
Re: The OTHER Habs' Goalies & General Goalie Stuff

The vast majority of the best goalies, those who make it to the college and professional ranks, are actually “hybrid” goalies, meaning that, at the appropriate moment in a game, they have developed and are able to incorporate any and all the fundamental goaltending skill techniques to stop the puck. They are not limited to any one style, but are able to use the tools of all styles. The purpose of this research is to relay to the reader the importance of instilling in young, developing goalies a complete, balanced and well-rounded skill set of fundamental goaltending techniques in order to advance their game as far as it can go. It is also meant to give coaches an understanding of some of the recent changes in the goaltending position and how they should teach these techniques.
 
Re: The OTHER Habs' Goalies & General Goalie Stuff


From your own link

Here you will be introduced and have the oportunity to learn more about the skating and stance fundamentals

From your own link, stance is part of fundamentals.


I present the following two photos.

brodeur002.jpg
hasek2sd3.jpg



Look at their stances....

Glove position? Different...

Leg width? Different....

Blocker position? Different.

Crouch? Different.

Even arm position... Brodeur is giving nothing between the arm and body, Hasek is.



The fundamentals are different. I rest my case.....

I'm confident anyone else who looks at these two pictures can see the clear differences, even if you dont.

Clear difference in stance which is a FUNDAMENTAL.

On top of all the others, which I still say are also fundamentals.
 
Re: The OTHER Habs' Goalies & General Goalie Stuff

From your own link



From your own link, stance is part of fundamentals.


I present the following two photos.

brodeur002.jpg
hasek2sd3.jpg



Look at their stances....

Glove position? Different...

Leg width? Different....

Blocker position? Different.

Crouch? Different.

Even arm position... Brodeur is giving nothing between the arm and body, Hasek is.



The fundamentals are different. I rest my case.....

I'm confident anyone else who looks at these two pictures can see the clear differences, even if you dont.

Clear difference in stance which is a FUNDAMENTAL.

On top of all the others, which I still say are also fundamentals.

yes nothing wrong with the stance.. read the other article .. good lord you love to cherry pick...

The key to a goalie’s playing style is the basic ready stance. The basic ready stance is the starting point of every save. It is from this starting position that a goalie “explodes” toward the puck in any given direction to place the body or part of the body in front of a shot to make a save. Just as it is problematic to label a goalie with a certain style for the reasons discussed in the previous section, defining a goalies style by the stance they normally use is also not favorable, because goalies need to use different stances depending on the situation. As Kevin Constantine, former San Jose Shark, Pittsburgh Penguin and New Jersey Devils coach, points out “Certain stances are better in certain situations. Each stance has its advantages and disadvantages. For example, a closed stance is best for handling bad angle shots: the butterfly stance is best in screen and deflection situations; and the open stance is best for lateral movement. So a goaltender should be ready to use all stances though most goaltenders will be more comfortable with a certain stance.”9 Corsi and Hannon add, “Today’s game has shown (and this is especially evident in the development of Dominik Hasek and Martin Biron) that a goalie must not lock into one particular style. Your ready stance will identify your starting point, but your save skills should be indifferent to your style.” 10

It is extremely important that coaches realize these differences in stances and that a different stance is used depending on the situation and that they teach these skills to their goalies. Because differences in the goalie’s starting position make certain types of fundamental saves easier for goalies, coaches must work on these different stances with their goalies and especially they must inform them and practice the situations in which they will use them. For instance, when a goalie stands with the legs far a part leaving a large “five-hole” (Constantine’s “butterfly stance”), he/she is more apt to use the full butterfly save because the stance facilitates dropping to the knees to cover that hole. Furthermore, a wide open stance of that nature already covers the low corners of the net (especially with goalies bigger in size), so skate saves or kick saves to cover those areas is often not necessary. The butterfly stance should be used for tips/deflections, screens and in plays close to the goal where low shots are more likely and for situations that transpire directly in front of the goal where a shooter see more of the net. By using the butterfly stance and style in these situations, goalies will have a higher percentage of success.

On the other hand, when a goalie stands with the legs closer together and does not give the shooter a large five-hole at which to shoot (Constantine’s “closed stance”), he/she is likely to be more inclined to close the five-hole in a standing position by bringing one leg in rather than going down in the full butterfly to close the five-hole. Additionally, a more upright standing goalie will give more space low to the corners and thus will tend to use skate saves and kick saves to cover the low corners. Situation where a goalie is more likely to use the closed stance is for very sharp, off-angle plays where a shooter does not have much net at which to shoot except the five-hole. In these situations, a goalie does not want to give up more of the five-hole than is necessary nor does he/she want to have such a wide stance that the leg pads are outside of the posts and not covering the net. Also, a closed stance is more beneficial for a goalie when the play is farther from the net as well. A goalie will have to travel farther to get into the appropriate position when passes are made from far out or dump ins around the boards are made and a closed stance allows for greater lateral movement. Also, with a closed stance, a goalie can more easily transition to the outside edge of the skate for a skate save. Thus, a closed stance is better to field for long shots, low to the corner, where there is no traffic in front of the goalie.

Stop cherry picking and read and digest..and cherry picking one picture of hasek and marty, i can find the stance each doing what the other was doing that you posted
 
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Re: The OTHER Habs' Goalies & General Goalie Stuff

From your own link



From your own link, stance is part of fundamentals.


I present the following two photos.

brodeur002.jpg
hasek2sd3.jpg



Look at their stances....

Glove position? Different...

Leg width? Different....

Blocker position? Different.

Crouch? Different.

Even arm position... Brodeur is giving nothing between the arm and body, Hasek is.



The fundamentals are different. I rest my case.....

I'm confident anyone else who looks at these two pictures can see the clear differences, even if you dont.

Clear difference in stance which is a FUNDAMENTAL.

On top of all the others, which I still say are also fundamentals.

Martin-Brodeur.jpg hasekaa.jpg

now what is your point? you also cherry pick photos, look same stance again but opposite goalies.. give it up Ben ..
 
Re: The OTHER Habs' Goalies & General Goalie Stuff

View attachment 3478 View attachment 3479

now what is your point? you also cherry pick photos, look same stance again but opposite goalies.. give it up Ben ..

Again your two photos...

Hasek is still in a much deeper crouch than marty.

His blocker continues to be much lower than Marty.

His legs continue to be spread wider than Marty.

All that moved is Marty's glove is higher.... thats it....... The rest of the stance continues to be different. And you say I'm cherry picking? One thing out of like 5 and now they are the same to you???


But you keep telling yourself that their fundamentals are the same.



Oh and you stll haven't showed me Marty rolling across the crease on his back.... and making that lateral movement as part of his fundamentals...



But yeah other than the fact that they are nearly completely different... they are exactly the same. But I'm cherry picking here?
 
They are pretty much the same stance and you know it, there is different stance for different plays but you choose not pay attention to that article. What was the play doing before the picture, why is Brodeur's glove high in one and low in the other. I have given you ample articles on goaltending fundamentals and yet you still cherry pick to try and make your stance which has fumbled over and over. My bad though, I forgot I am dealing with the stat internet guy who has an opinion on every thing, and believes he is right. So on that note I am closing this thread, what's the point of continuing on..
 
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