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The New Division

I would have Harvey 2nd and probably Robinson and Potvin 4/5.

No wait, they would have to be 3rd and 5/6 given Erik the Great would have to be 1.

:couch
 
KingTucker said:
Picked up the NHL Yearbook:

They have the Leafs 4th in the East, Canadiens 8th and Senators 9th. They see the Leafs as one of the top up and coming clubs and grant elite status to Lupul and Kessel.
Concerns for the Habs are "jam up front" and Price's play. The Senators had question marks around leadership with Alfredsson's departure and the mounting pressure of being near contender status, essentially that the #peskysens might not work with the spotlight on them a little more bright.

In their Top 50 NHLers, Phil Kessel placed 11th, Joffrey Lupul 20, PK Subban 33, Erik Karlsson 37 and James van Riemsdyk 47. Max Pacioretty came in 50.
Nazem Kadri and Brendan Gallagher came in 2 and 5 in their "Five to Watch" for pool sleepers.
Weirdly, in the top 50 Eric Staal came in #3 behind Sindey Crosby (1) and Steven Stamkos (2).

They had Anderson 8 and Reimer 10 in their top 10 goaltenders, no mention of Price...
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If toronto media always overrated like that, Zeke would be known as the biggest negative nancy in leafs nation.
 
KingTucker said:
Picked up the NHL Yearbook:

They have the Leafs 4th in the East, Canadiens 8th and Senators 9th. They see the Leafs as one of the top up and coming clubs and grant elite status to Lupul and Kessel.
Concerns for the Habs are "jam up front" and Price's play. The Senators had question marks around leadership with Alfredsson's departure and the mounting pressure of being near contender status, essentially that the #peskysens might not work with the spotlight on them a little more bright.

In their Top 50 NHLers, Phil Kessel placed 11th, Joffrey Lupul 20, PK Subban 33, Erik Karlsson 37 and James van Riemsdyk 47. Max Pacioretty came in 50.
Nazem Kadri and Brendan Gallagher came in 2 and 5 in their "Five to Watch" for pool sleepers.
Weirdly, in the top 50 Eric Staal came in #3 behind Sindey Crosby (1) and Steven Stamkos (2).

They had Anderson 8 and Reimer 10 in their top 10 goaltenders, no mention of Price...
Click to expand...
You wasted 4 dollars.
 
That definitely sounds like a very blue-coloured article. Surprised they didn't have Phaneuf and Franson in the top 50 either.

Lupul 20 maybe, if that comes with a huge asterix saying "*when healthy". When Crosby looks like a model of health compared to a guy, he's got problems.
 
UWHabs said:
That definitely sounds like a very blue-coloured article. Surprised they didn't have Phaneuf and Franson in the top 50 either.

Lupul 20 maybe, if that comes with a huge asterix saying "*when healthy". When Crosby looks like a model of health compared to a guy, he's got problems.
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If it had been something based on wear and tear, I'd be more concerned about Lupul's health going forward. But getting hit in the arm by a phaneuf slapshot tends to have consequences short of having some sort of mutant healing factor.
 
MindzEye said:
If it had been something based on wear and tear, I'd be more concerned about Lupul's health going forward. But getting hit in the arm by a phaneuf slapshot tends to have consequences short of having some sort of mutant healing factor.
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That's true. Lupul's injuries don't seem to be chronic problems so much as just the product of chronic crappy luck.

- concussion
- spinal chord contusion
- infection
- separated shoulder
- broken arm

Literally none of these things are connected to one another
 
Concussion, Slapshot in arm, separated shoulder, back surgery in the last 4 years, causing him to miss an average of 30+ games per year. Sure, they may be all separate incidents, but some players just seem more prone than others. Maybe he'll play the next 5 years and not miss a game, and true, his injuries aren't as chronic as others, but if I were making a list of injury prone players in the NHL, he'd definitely be up there on that list (Markov too, after his string of knee injuries the last few years).
 
Habspatrol said:
You're talking "defensively?"
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No, all-around. Defensively it would probably be something like...

1. Orr (he was unbeatable on the defensive end as well)
2. Bourque/Lidstrom
3. Bourque/Lidstrom
4. Stevens
5. Robinson
6. Harvey
7. Chelios
8. Horton
9. Kelly/Savard
10. Kelly/Savard

Just off the top of my head. Something like that.
 
UWHabs said:
Concussion, Slapshot in arm, separated shoulder, back surgery in the last 4 years, causing him to miss an average of 30+ games per year. Sure, they may be all separate incidents, but some players just seem more prone than others. Maybe he'll play the next 5 years and not miss a game, and true, his injuries aren't as chronic as others, but if I were making a list of injury prone players in the NHL, he'd definitely be up there on that list (Markov too, after his string of knee injuries the last few years).
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Oh sure, he would be, but I don't know how indicative of potential future injury, his injury history is. He's probably a little more likely to be healthy for a few seasons straight than a lot of other players with similar missed games profiles, for just that reason, none of those injuries are chronic in nature.
 
JaysCyYoung said:
No, all-around. Defensively it would probably be something like...

1. Orr (he was unbeatable on the defensive end as well)
2. Bourque/Lidstrom
3. Bourque/Lidstrom
4. Stevens
5. Robinson
6. Harvey
7. Chelios
8. Horton
9. Kelly/Savard
10. Kelly/Savard

Just off the top of my head. Something like that.
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No Rod Langway love?
 
MindzEye said:
No Rod Langway love?
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If there was a list of most overrated defenders he would make it. I harbour lingering recently for him having cost Bourque a Norris (Coffey should have won the other year he won).

A great defender, but a product of a media backlash against the high-offence of the period at the time.
 
JaysCyYoung said:
If there was a list of most overrated defenders he would make it. I harbour lingering recently for him having cost Bourque a Norris (Coffey should have won the other year he won).

A great defender, but a product of a media backlash against the high-offence of the period at the time.
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Still a two time Norris winner who was about as elite as it comes in his own end. If you're making a top 10 of the top defensively skilled defenders in the history of the game, he's a pretty glaring omission.
 
MindzEye said:
Still a two time Norris winner who was about as elite as it comes in his own end. If you're making a top 10 of the top defensively skilled defenders in the history of the game, he's a pretty glaring omission.
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He'd be on the honourable mention list, but I can't justify putting him ahead of any of those names. And quite frankly I would imagine the lack of King Clancy or Eddie Shore is just as bad from a defensive standpoint.

Maybe even an in-prime, pre-car crash Fetisov too.
 
JaysCyYoung said:
No, all-around. Defensively it would probably be something like...

1. Orr (he was unbeatable on the defensive end as well)
2. Bourque/Lidstrom
3. Bourque/Lidstrom
4. Stevens
5. Robinson
6. Harvey
7. Chelios
8. Horton
9. Kelly/Savard
10. Kelly/Savard

Just off the top of my head. Something like that.
Click to expand...
Maybe my hatred for the Bruins clouded my judgement but I never thought of Bourque as being being a defensive stalwart. Don't get me wrong, I never thought he was bad defensively... I thought he was good but I don't recall him being great. Offensively OTOH he was top 3 all time.
 
Habspatrol said:
Maybe my hatred for the Bruins clouded my judgement but I never thought of Bourque as being being a defensive stalwart. Don't get me wrong, I never thought he was bad defensively... I thought he was good but I don't recall him being great. Offensively OTOH he was top 3 all time.
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Boston's defensive ranking during Bourque's tenure:

1979-80: 2nd
1980-81: 6th
1981-82: 4th
1982-83: 2nd
1983-84: 3rd
1984-85: 6th
1985-86: 6th
1986-87: 7th
1987-88: 3rd
1988-89: 4th
1989-90: 1st (the year Edmonton writers screwed Bourque out of the Hart)
1990-91: 8th
1991-92: 10th
1992-93: 3rd
1993-94: 10th
1994-95: 7th
1995-96: 17th
1996-97: 26th (Bourque missed the second most amount of games in his career)
1997-98: 6th
1998-99: 4th
1999-00: 6th
2000-01: 3rd

Out of twenty one full seasons Bourque's teams only finished out of the top ten in goals against on two occasions. They were consistently amongst the best in the league at preventing goals and he was consistently one of the league leaders in ice-time every single year. The seasons that he missed a large number of games also coincided with years in which his teams' defensive rankings were much worse than usual.

I remember watching him and he made very few mistakes, and I didn't even have the privilege of seeing him in his prime years either. But he was one of the best skaters, arguably the best stick-handling defender ever not named Robert Gordon Orr, and he was fantastic at reading plays and getting the puck out of danger. He was gritty and while not a prodigious physical player, had more sandpaper than another positional specialist in Lidstrom. As far as defensive coverage goes I think Bourque is clearly one of the best of all-time.
 
I dunno... here he is against an 18 year old rookie playing his first ever NHL shift.

[video=youtube;Vgfbu7YttHY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgfbu7YttHY[/video]
 
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